ES350Bob

For those of you who like me have this annoying diesel engine knocking/tapping sound from cold through hot, lasting 5 to 7 miles, or as mine, getting present even when hot more lately at times, the diagnosis is in:

Improper valve lash requiring the valves be adjusted to get rid of it.

It is very important for you to make clear to your dealer service department that the engine be cold and NOT to start the car unless you are present or that you make it clear they start and immediately drive the car, NOT pop the hood and lurk about the engine first then drive after checking engine under hood.

You car must be cold started and driven immediately for them to be able to catch this problem. They will want to pop the hood, you must make it absolutely clear to them they drive first, pop the hood later if they wish.

While I'm not convinced my engine does not also have a rod acting up due to the knocking/tapping nature rather than clicking sound, needing a valve adjustment with adding shims at 88 miles on the car is absurd, I now have roughly 860 miles on it having been told go ahead and drive it by the first dealer who I bought the car from so I have been driving it for over 700 plus miles with this valve problem because the first dealer lied to me.

I also have the transmission problem, wind noise, aka buffeting, and I am beside myself with moments of anger and very disappointed in my brand new car.

jeffofla

Whose diagnosis? Your dealers? Or is this a Lexus diagnosis issued via a TSIB? And if it is a TSIB, what is the number?

ES350Bob

Jeff,

This is not a TSIB, this is a diagnosis coming from dealer service manager and tech forman at dealer, both rode with me, but I had to make it clear to them not to start the car until I was present and even then they wanted to first pop the hood and I said no, drive first, pop hood later.

They heard it's unmistakable presence, the tech said the word rod, the service manager said improper valve lash, the diagnosis is improper valve lash requiring adjustments be made to them.

Said another way, a valve job requiring adding shims to the valves in my engine is what would need to be done.

This is not something a TSIB would address I don't think, this is just bad valve work on the engine in Japan before installing it in a car.

Any way, if you have this, you MUST make it clear they start the engine cold and drive right away or they might miss it if they lurk about the engine under the hood for 5 minutes or more and then drive after that. In park when cold engine you have to have hawk or bat hearing hearing to segregate it from the rest of the engine noise which I can do only because I have heard it at it's loudest when driving the car, same for hot engine.

Pheonix

Hmmmm I think their termonology is wrong. Valve lash should be fairly hard to have on the chain drive (in theory) for my understanding of it.

Maybe it's the rocker arms, or the buckets are slapping.
I'd believe slapping buckets, or something funky with the new rocker arm system before it being a valve lash problem.



*edit*
That can be sorta confusing for semi-technical, or mechanical people. In Toyota/Lexus world. Valve lash is specifying the amount of play between the cam drive gears & the belt, the intermesh gears(for the older ones) and the cam drive gears & chain in this case. Valve clearance is simply reffered to as valve clearance.
Unlike other makes where valve lash is just another way of saying valve clearance.

ES350Bob

Pheonix,
I was hoping you'd add your thoughts to this.
Whatever it is, it requires adding shims as they mentioned that to me, numerous phone calls to Japan are required by Lexus Japan when doing it telling them measurements, then calls again.
They said it takes a long time and is exacting to do it.
They took me to the back of their service area and showed me an engine cutaway and pointed to the items that look very much like sockets from a socket wrench set only dozens of them in the engine.
I'm not happy about it no matter what if it means I'm getting shims and it started at 88 miles since I was delivered the car hot I didn't hear it til the next am and it had 88 miles then.

Tammy

I believe I would change the oil and oil filter before before a valve clearance adjustment. My understanding is you have less than a thousand miles.

MD350

Mine had this diesel sound for the first few hundred miles on cold starts. It has now gone away. I figure the dealer delivered the car with a full tank of 87 octane and I have used 93 in my 2 tanks since Don't know if that had something to do with it. Maybe it was a break-in issue and the engine needed to be broken in and driven a bit. I don't know exactly what it was, but it has been gone for more than a week now. I have 800 miles now in two weeks of ownership.

Kaius88

this diesel sound...can you describe it? Is it a revvvvv sound or a buzz sound? On cold start, I have the "gargle" for about 60 seconds, then no more noises. The gargle sounds exactly like when you gargle water in your mouth, but short spurts with 5 seconds of silence in between. I am thinking this is the fuel injectors warming up.... and it only lasts about a minute.

ES350Bob

MD350,

I have only used 93 octane, my car has over 800 miles and it is still present, actually now appearing at times when engine is hot which is new within the last week or so.
Did your's stay knocking and tapping while driving for at least 5 to 7 miles or more, a distinct and unique metal slamming into metal type of sound?
And this was loud enough inside the car for you to hear it that whole time say with AC on, a very distinct noise on top of normal acceleration of engine noise whether engine was cold, cool, warm or up to hot?

ES350Bob

Tammy,
Yes I have less than a 1,000 miles on the car.
From day one though after hearing this noise I felt and still do that my new car acts very much like one of my prior ES300 did when it needed a valve job due to gelled oil.
The steering column vibrates, the arm rests, floorboards, just like my 300 did when it needed a valve job for gelled oil, also there is an unevenness to engine sound just as with my 300 and especially so when engine is good and hot.
I don't believe an oil change would do anything for this problem. You'd have to hear the metal impacting metal sound I have listened to every day and for hundreds of miles to possibly agree with me an oil change won't fix this nor will it undo any damage already done that sound represents.

MD350

Mine sounded more like Kaius's. Yikes, you very well do have a more serious issue. Good luck with it.

ES350Bob

Thanks for the good luck wish.
Your's and Kaius sound like normal cold engine type stuff to me, maybe some lesser octane gas in the mix for you initially MD.

Tammy

Because a previous engine acted a certain way, it doesn't relate to other engine designs... This engine has a much higher compression.

Gelling is not an issue... not with 800 miles. The oil gels when not changed and neglected many thousands of miles.

You do not know who's or what oil weight is in the engine.. Or how pure it is.

An oil change is cheap knowledge the oil is correct. A new oil filter in the canister is also inexepensive insurance.

ES350Bob

I do know who's oil is in it, Lexus Japan's oil is in the car.

I find it more than coincidental that I felt for more than a month it needed a valve job like my ES300 did only to have a Lexus dealer service manager and dealer tech shop forman trained in Japan tell me I need a valve job to repair the problem with the tech initially contemplating a rod problem as well.

Gelling may for sure not be the reason my valves behave the way they do but the end result on me in the car is similar to when my oil had gelled in my ES300 requiring it to have a valve job.

Engine uneveness=similar as gelling, vibration when hot or when knocking/tapping=similar as gelling, sluggish acceleration=similar as gelling.

The only major difference between my new car and my old ES300 is the knocking/tapping noise is LOUDER in my brand new car though I have not noticed the slightest amount of smoke in exhaust as with ES300 oil gell issue but I also haven't been seriously looking for it either.

dshahs420

Just for peace of mind, change the oil, preferably to synthetics and see if there is any change? I would change my oil at 1000 miles regardless.....