garsarno

That's right but they have been known to shave a few tenth's off here and there to demonstrate how fast their authors are.

toneman

Huh? I guess maybe compared to your Accord, the ES 350 has pretty decent handling...but I don't think many folks would disagree with my saying that the ES 350 handling does leave quite a bit to be desired. Heck--my 2002 Acura TL-S had better road handling than my ES 350...and even my brother observed that the handling on the new ES didn't feel as "tight" compared to other sedans in its' class.

toneman

That, and the fact that 99% of the general public would not be able to (legitimately) obtain similar numbers unless they knew exactly what they were doing, and only under ideal conditions.

LexBob2

I use the 0-60, as well as all of the other performance measurements, merely as guidelines to help in decision making. Understandably I probably couldn't could get the same times, stopping distances, slalom speeds etc. as the professional - But 6.0, is quicker than 6.5 etc. no matter who is driving. Just as 7.5 is quicker than 8.0

LexBob2

How did you arrive at the 6.7 sec figure, when the magazine published 6.2 sec? Do you have a fudge factor that you add on to each of their reported 0-60 times?

Mako1

I can honestly say that I have purchased a car that is smarter than I am, figuring out all of the options and associated voice commands has been a challenge. Now I am at the point where 1 command a day is my goal, wish Lexus had a personal technology trainer available to spend half a day with their customers.

toneman

Maybe instead of telling me that I didn't do my homework, you should re-read my post; nowhere was I insinuating that I was expecting the ES 350 to outhandle the TL-S, or that I was expecting it to have "great" handling; I was a bit surprised that the ES 350 didn't feel as "tight" as I think it should be, IMHO--even for a luxury sedan. I offered the TL-S so as to explain my point regarding the ES' handling; one can't just say that a car handles well or not so well--you have to say, "handles well/not compared to some other car." That's just like saying that your car is fast; "fast", compared to what? It makes no sense for me to say that the ES is at best, a decent-handling car w/o putting it in relation to some other car's handling. Granted, one could argue that the TL-S might not be the best example as far as comparing handling is concerned, but in all fairness it is in the same general sedan class as the ES.

Besides, I was commenting on another poster's comment about "But what I really Love about the ES 350 is the handling. It takes the corners so very well. It holds the road so perfectly."; to say that it takes the corners so very well and that it holds the road so perfectly--does that not clearly imply that the ES has great--if not excellent--handling? Sorry, I beg to differ--the ES 350 does not have sloppy handling by any means, but in no way does it take the corners so very well or holds the road so perfectly (at least not when taking corners), IMHO. Heck--if implying that, just because it takes the corners very well and holds the road so perfectly, the ES is a pretty-good handling car...well I guess my 3-ton SUV handles almost as well as the ES 'cuz IMHO it takes corners and holds the road almost as well as my ES does...but of course I'd be laughed out of this forum for making such a ludicrous statement.

My point was that the ES' handling--which BTW, is not to be confused with "ride"--could be improved upon just a bit, IMHO. Besides, I'm not the first in this forum to have lightly-criticized the ES' handling...and just in case you misread this post--in no way am I saying or implying that the ES' handling sucks. Maybe for some folks the ES may seem as if it take corners as if it were on rails...but for others, it may seem as if seems a bit less sure-footed in corners compared to other sedans in its' class.

toneman

But saying that one time is quicker than another time is all a matter of relativity; in any case, that's besides the point--I dunno about you, but a 0.5 second difference in 0-60 is not insignificant, by any means. Let's just assume for the sake of argument that the 6.2 second figure is indeed valid for the ES 350--if my 0-60 times were more than a half-second slower than their supposedly best time, then I'd be speculating that they're: a) fudging a bit on the numbers (in which case a few tenths of a difference is acceptable in my book); b) they're completely full of it (IOW the car is nothing like they make it out to be, performance-wise); or c) there's something wrong with my car. I would have added d) I must suck at straight-line dragging...but I've done enough "independent" self-testing of some of my vehicles (I've had performance tunes installed on some of my past vehicles) to know that I can't be so bad a driver that my times would be way more than half a second off theirs unless I wasn't ensuring that my testing was done correctly.

Okay--I'm sorry I got off-topic...

LexBob2

In my case using the different measures from various publications road tests, is more a case of "what am I paying for here" and "what is the capability vs. other cars that I'm considering?", than it is for the absolute numbers. Kinda like buying a high end sound system - I'll probably never use all of the capacity, but it's good to know what I'm getting for my $$'s. Interesting thoughts though.

toneman

Valid points; however, I would like to ask you this--how do/would you know if your car actually has all the capacity that "official" testing proclaims that it should have, unless you actually tried to achieve that capacity yourself? Example--you said you'd never use all that capacity...but if the mags say 6.2 seconds and the best you could do is 7 seconds--wouldn't you be wondering if perhaps the max capacity was either grossly mistated or if perhaps your engine isn't performing like it should be capable of doing (IOW you got ripped off on the performance aspect of the car)? Or this--what if you find that you can consistently get 5 mpg less on the highway than EPA rated...would you tell yourself that it's no big deal 'cuz you'll probably never be able to achieve such economy anyways?

Same thing with your sound system argument--surely you wouldn't just take someone's word for it that a high-end system has plenty of overhead, even if you never reach the top end of it? I mean, someone could sell me a product by saying that so-and-so audio receiver is really impressive because it can put out 1000 watts of power; sure I probably wouldn't need to call on all 1000 watts but if I find that my system starts to act like cr*p at 600 watts of output, I'd sure as heck start wondering if my 1000-watt receiver is really all that it's supposed to be.

Not trying to be argumentative with you, so please don't take any of my comments as a personal attack or anything like that.

dshahs420

toneman, "it didnt feel as tight as it should be"??? Didnt you test drive the car? When you say "it should be" what are your expectations and does it handle worse than when you test drove it? Your statements make no sense at all! FWIW

LexBob2

Nope. As I mentioned, I use all of the above mentioned measurements as guidelines only when making a car purchase. Then after test drives, I determine if the car is right for me and I like it enough to buy it. If 4 different publications record 4 different times/distances etc., I can average them out - They'll vary for the other vehicles under consideration too, so it's a wash. With your example I'd need to set up some cones out in the Target parking lot to determine the slalom speed of the cars I'm looking at, to be sure the references I looked at are accurate. Might have to do some 60-0 panic stops out there too - Not practical. Might be fun tho.

toneman

Whoops--I meant to say that it didn't feel as tight as I would like it to be...even knowing that I should not expect the ES to handle like a sport sedan. IOW--I was sorta hoping for a little bit better...not sports-sedan better, but a bit more than how it currently handles. Again--not that the ES handling sucks, but IMHO there is room for a little bit of improvement in that department. Nothing wrong in critiquing various characteristics/features of a vehicle, no?

dshahs420

If you want to feel better about the handling in your ES, go test drive the new Nissan Maxima. It'll make the ES feel like a BMW!!

ng123ray

sorry to say.. but only the smooth ride and the power appeal to me in this car...i have quite alot of things i dislike about the car... but i still love it..