ES350 vs Toyota Camry
09-26-06, 05:03 PM
#31
The Camry XLE V6 has a manual rear sunshade, 440W JBL audio with bluetooth and reclining rear seats as well as a PlasmaCluster deionizer air purifier. That's about it.
09-27-06, 12:16 AM
#33
I love it. It's no Lexus but it's fun to drive (in a different sense), geeky (although stuff like the Smart Key & backup camera are now available on the IS and ES) and spacious given it's 3" shorter than the current gen Corolla.
09-27-06, 11:13 AM
#34
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When we were in the market for this car, I test drove an 07 Camry V6 back-to-back with the ES350 (the dealerships were across the street from each other). I was under the assumption that the ES was basically a re-badged Camry with mostly cosmetic differences, as had been my experience with comparable Hondas and Acuras before.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
09-27-06, 11:30 AM
#35
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
But after driving the '07 ES - I am now convinced and I've switched
- I only wish the ES had power folding mirrors like the GS and maybe the reclining rear seat like the Camry's
09-27-06, 12:12 PM
#36
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09-27-06, 12:13 PM
#37
When we were in the market for this car, I test drove an 07 Camry V6 back-to-back with the ES350 (the dealerships were across the street from each other). I was under the assumption that the ES was basically a re-badged Camry with mostly cosmetic differences, as had been my experience with comparable Hondas and Acuras before.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
09-27-06, 12:34 PM
#38
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You think I'm mistaken as to carpools being meant primarily to reduce congestion? Consider this--what would you be asking/telling yourself if you're in a carpool lane that's moving not much faster than the adjacent non-carpool lanes? Don't think for a moment that my comment seems implausible--those of you living in the SF Bay Area know that some carpool lanes are almost just as congested as the non-carpool ones during rush hour; heck, even up here in Sacramento I personally was in a situation where I actually did not move into the carpool lane because it was moving slower than the non-carpool lanes.
Sheesh--as if hybrid owners don't already get enough advantages not given to non-hybrid drivers; what next--no bridge toll for hybrid drivers?
09-27-06, 02:29 PM
#39
Not all hybrids are allowed in the HOV lane. For one thing, the GS450h isn't allowed. Besides, would you rather have the person sitting in the regular lane idling in their car or have them in a hybrid which uses less fuel AND helps with the air quality? A different perspective on reducing pollution (carpooling being the original intent).
I'm neither for nor against this rule. Frankly, we have no hybrid incentives up here other than 50% off parking at certain downtown spots. I mean, it's no different from a company getting tax incentives for buying a Hummer. (stupid loophole)
I'm neither for nor against this rule. Frankly, we have no hybrid incentives up here other than 50% off parking at certain downtown spots. I mean, it's no different from a company getting tax incentives for buying a Hummer. (stupid loophole)
09-27-06, 05:35 PM
#40
Not that I don't believe you, but I couldn't help but notice that the Murano and FX do look somewhat similar in design IMHO; I guess if the definition of "platform" is based in part on the type of drivetrain (FWD/RWD/AWD), then I guess the Murano and FX would be on different platforms...
With Toyota/Lexus, the Camry/RX/Highlander/Avalon/Sienna/Solara are all based on one similar platform (with differing generations i.e. Avalon's current body on Camry's previous gen's platform)
09-28-06, 12:03 PM
#41
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Not all hybrids are allowed in the HOV lane. For one thing, the GS450h isn't allowed. Besides, would you rather have the person sitting in the regular lane idling in their car or have them in a hybrid which uses less fuel AND helps with the air quality? A different perspective on reducing pollution (carpooling being the original intent).
I'm neither for nor against this rule. Frankly, we have no hybrid incentives up here other than 50% off parking at certain downtown spots. I mean, it's no different from a company getting tax incentives for buying a Hummer. (stupid loophole)
I'm neither for nor against this rule. Frankly, we have no hybrid incentives up here other than 50% off parking at certain downtown spots. I mean, it's no different from a company getting tax incentives for buying a Hummer. (stupid loophole)
And regarding your other counterpoint--what's the point in being in a carpool lane if you're not moving faster than the non-carpool lane--which as I alluded to in my previous post, is the case in more than a few metro areas--and that's even w/o solo hybrid drivers being added to the mix. As a non-hybrid driver w/ the required number of passengers, I'd no longer be gaining a huge time savings on my commute by being in the carpool lane...so I stand by my point that if we continue to allow solo hybrid drivers in carpool lanes, it's only a matter of time before carpool lanes will be regularly as congested as non-carpool lanes...at which point the biggest--if not only--advantage of being in a carpool lane is no longer that.
If we really wanted to effectively and fairly show how carpools can help commutes--we should only allow hybrid vehicles carrying 3 or more occupants to occupy those lanes; no gas-only passenger vehicles (buses and similar excepted), or solo hybrids (a hybrid carrying 3 passengers is serving a more meaningful purpose both to traffic and to the environment than a solo hybrid does).
09-28-06, 02:08 PM
#42
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Well I did say "certain" hybrid vehicles...
And regarding your other counterpoint--what's the point in being in a carpool lane if you're not moving faster than the non-carpool lane--which as I alluded to in my previous post, is the case in more than a few metro areas--and that's even w/o solo hybrid drivers being added to the mix. As a non-hybrid driver w/ the required number of passengers, I'd no longer be gaining a huge time savings on my commute by being in the carpool lane...so I stand by my point that if we continue to allow solo hybrid drivers in carpool lanes, it's only a matter of time before carpool lanes will be regularly as congested as non-carpool lanes...at which point the biggest--if not only--advantage of being in a carpool lane is no longer that.
If we really wanted to effectively and fairly show how carpools can help commutes--we should only allow hybrid vehicles carrying 3 or more occupants to occupy those lanes; no gas-only passenger vehicles (buses and similar excepted), or solo hybrids (a hybrid carrying 3 passengers is serving a more meaningful purpose both to traffic and to the environment than a solo hybrid does).
And regarding your other counterpoint--what's the point in being in a carpool lane if you're not moving faster than the non-carpool lane--which as I alluded to in my previous post, is the case in more than a few metro areas--and that's even w/o solo hybrid drivers being added to the mix. As a non-hybrid driver w/ the required number of passengers, I'd no longer be gaining a huge time savings on my commute by being in the carpool lane...so I stand by my point that if we continue to allow solo hybrid drivers in carpool lanes, it's only a matter of time before carpool lanes will be regularly as congested as non-carpool lanes...at which point the biggest--if not only--advantage of being in a carpool lane is no longer that.
If we really wanted to effectively and fairly show how carpools can help commutes--we should only allow hybrid vehicles carrying 3 or more occupants to occupy those lanes; no gas-only passenger vehicles (buses and similar excepted), or solo hybrids (a hybrid carrying 3 passengers is serving a more meaningful purpose both to traffic and to the environment than a solo hybrid does).
09-28-06, 02:10 PM
#43
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When we were in the market for this car, I test drove an 07 Camry V6 back-to-back with the ES350 (the dealerships were across the street from each other). I was under the assumption that the ES was basically a re-badged Camry with mostly cosmetic differences, as had been my experience with comparable Hondas and Acuras before.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
Needless to say, I was surprised by the rather significant differences in driving dynamics and refinement between the two. Lexus does seem to spend a lot of time taking a good platform and making it truly "Lexus-like." My father has an LS430, and I was surprised by how much more the ES felt like the LS than the Camry.
In short, I'm a convert =) A born again Lexus fan so to speak.
09-28-06, 04:12 PM
#44
Well I did say "certain" hybrid vehicles...
And regarding your other counterpoint--what's the point in being in a carpool lane if you're not moving faster than the non-carpool lane--which as I alluded to in my previous post, is the case in more than a few metro areas--and that's even w/o solo hybrid drivers being added to the mix. As a non-hybrid driver w/ the required number of passengers, I'd no longer be gaining a huge time savings on my commute by being in the carpool lane...so I stand by my point that if we continue to allow solo hybrid drivers in carpool lanes, it's only a matter of time before carpool lanes will be regularly as congested as non-carpool lanes...at which point the biggest--if not only--advantage of being in a carpool lane is no longer that.
If we really wanted to effectively and fairly show how carpools can help commutes--we should only allow hybrid vehicles carrying 3 or more occupants to occupy those lanes; no gas-only passenger vehicles (buses and similar excepted), or solo hybrids (a hybrid carrying 3 passengers is serving a more meaningful purpose both to traffic and to the environment than a solo hybrid does).
And regarding your other counterpoint--what's the point in being in a carpool lane if you're not moving faster than the non-carpool lane--which as I alluded to in my previous post, is the case in more than a few metro areas--and that's even w/o solo hybrid drivers being added to the mix. As a non-hybrid driver w/ the required number of passengers, I'd no longer be gaining a huge time savings on my commute by being in the carpool lane...so I stand by my point that if we continue to allow solo hybrid drivers in carpool lanes, it's only a matter of time before carpool lanes will be regularly as congested as non-carpool lanes...at which point the biggest--if not only--advantage of being in a carpool lane is no longer that.
If we really wanted to effectively and fairly show how carpools can help commutes--we should only allow hybrid vehicles carrying 3 or more occupants to occupy those lanes; no gas-only passenger vehicles (buses and similar excepted), or solo hybrids (a hybrid carrying 3 passengers is serving a more meaningful purpose both to traffic and to the environment than a solo hybrid does).
But yeah, I understand your point. I guess it doesn't quite work here since the HOV lane is empty so you really do save time and we don't have that incentive for hybrid vehicles anyway.
I agree with your point about hybrid AND carpooling. 5 people in an AT-PZEV hybrid (I guess CA also have PZEV cars) make more sense than say 5 people in a V10 Econoline or a V8 Expedition.
09-29-06, 07:39 AM
#45
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Oh Well......seeing all the solo Prius drivers zooming down the carpool lane while I sit and wait in nearby lane moving inch by inch during traffic hour makes me wonder if I should get one so I can join the fun. Anyway, I went to Toyota yesterday and the price was $28K for one with already 25K miles but all loaded up. And the sale guy said this car comes with a premium price tag...whether new or used, and I still need to apply for the carpool decal with DMW....and I may not even quality. But, if the CA law changes in 2008, I need to think before moving forward.