NGG

Took delivery of my ES 350 July 1. It has a build date of 05/06. Currently has less tham 1700 kilometers(1050miles) on it.Very disappointed and disillusioned because:

** The weld on the sheetmetal under the rear parcel shelf was either never done, was incomplete, or inadequate. Symptoms were creaking noises from behind rear seat. Dealer has car at a speciality body shop to weld seperated parts. I will visit bodyshop to determine exact cause of defficiency. My major concern here is that these parts are part of the overall structure of the unibody design that provides for stiffness and ridgidity. How do I know if other critical welds are not faulty thus contributing to an unstable and unsafe vehicle. I note from this forum two other instances of the same problem. I feel I have been sold a defective product and I no longer have confidence in the safety and dependability of the car.

** In the last few hundred kilometers I have noticed that the motor makes "tocking" sounds when cold. Have not yet mentioned this to dealer, but will when I pick the car up.

** Right door mirror rattles.

** Steering wheel rattles intermittently.

** Dash near speedo rattles intermittently.

** Front passenger seat rattles intermittently.

** Centre console rattles intermittently.

** Tire pressure sensor located between headliner and roof near rear window rattles (there is a Lexus TSB on this).

** Emergency trunk release handle (in trunk) rattles.

** Excessive wind noise near outside mirrors.

** Insufficient padding under right bolster on passenger front seat.

** There are many creaks when crossing fairly benign railway tracks. Possibly caused by a compromised body structure because of faulty factory welds.

Would appreciate any suggestions from other members on how to deal with the dealer and Lexus Canada to resolve these problems and still have a car in which I have confidence.

amf1932

Wow!!! I'm sorry to hear about all your rattles. My car has a build date of 3/06 and I don't have ANY of the problems. Maybe they're getting a little sloppy at the assembly plant, although I doubt it. Good luck.

ES350Bob

NGG....I am so sorry to read of your problems. I have a car with multiple issues myself and it is the worst position for a new car I have ever been in.

My experiences with Lexus corporate USA have been horrible!

Within a week and a half of my e-mail writing officials in Japan about my car and horrible experiences with Lexus USA, every single long standing mechanical defect diagnosis was denied, all repairs denied by a Lexus FTS and forced to accept this car as is, supposedly a normal ES350.

I have learned from your post about a rattle in the back which I had put so low on any care scale as to ignore it for the most part. Thanks to your post though I will now pay closer attention to it.

My rattle back there sounds like a combo of metal and glass, usually only on slightly rough surface material roads to very rough surface when I hear it, sometimes after a slightly rough road it will continue to do it for a while on otherwise very smooth roads but goes away after continuing on the smooth road surface. Only once in a while does it do it, as a start to do it, on what I would have thought was a smooth surface road.

Is there an easy way for an owner to see the area where a weld might be missing?

psp

Nothing is more upsetting to me in a new car than rattles. When I bought my first new car (this Lexus) I bought it because of the perception of quality assurance and satisfaction that owners felt about the car. After reading NGG's account my confidence in the Lexus brand is shaken. I bought the car because I liked it when I did the test drive, though I did not test drive my car. I have creeks and rattles in the dash that bother me. To hear that there are faulty welds in NGG's car concerns me that quality assurance on the part of Lexus (something that I considered to be a hallmark of the brand) calls quality into question. {Reading ES350Bob's recent postings calls Lexus' commitment into question}

This posting forum represents only a fraction of the units that will be delivered this year. I have seen projections of delivery of some 70,000 units in the USA. I fearfully wonder about the pervasiveness of the issues that we discuss.

I still love the car and feel that mine is running well.

NGG

My weld related rattle sounds exactly as you desribe in yours.

I have not yet had a chance to inspect my car (Thanksgiving weekend here) in its diaassembled condition, so am unable to tell you exactly where it is and if can be seen without removing upholstery etc. I plan to visit the bodyshop on Tuesday to inspect the car before the dealer reassembles it. I will let you know at that time.

Good luck on the resolution of your problems.

SpaceDust

Just keep in mind that reading a forum like this can give you a somewhat skewed idea of the issues with a product (any product - not just cars).

The reality is that the percentage of people with issues is probably substantially smaller than the percentage of people who post to a forum with the issues would be. Why? Because a lot of people with issues are posting to discover if others have the problem/have solutions, while people without problems are far less likely to post unless they're a car enthusiast. Thus, the percentage is skewed and you can't use forums as a representative sample of the overall experience of owners.

This isn't intended to say that there isn't an issue, or that the number of people with an issue isn't significant. I don't have any answers for that.

I also haven't seen the problems so far, but then, my car is still under the 1000 mile mark. Thanks to the reports here, I know several things to keep an eye out for!

SpaceDust
2007 ES 350
Premium Plus w/ Nav
Ruby Red Metallic/Cashmere

ES350Bob

Thanks, I'd like to hear what you find. Let's hope it's real accessible and easy to see as right now I feel like ripping into the car at times out of total frustration, not sure I want to have a reason to...LOL...though actually unless a wheel just fell off the car for no reason there isn't much that might surprise me.

I hope you end up happy with whatever is done on your behalf as a result of the issues you have dealt with.

NGG

I won't see car until Wednesday, however the service advisor told me today that the weld in question is in the middle of the underside of the rear parcel shelf. He also said that they found other creaking noises near the rear seatbelt anchors....not sure where these are located. This now confirms my fears about the compromised integrity of the unibody.As far as I am concerned all the welds are now suspect thus I no longer have confidence in the safety of the car. I plan to report this to Transport Canada (a Federal Agency).

I will let you know more once I inspect the car and talk to the welding tech and service advisor.

I would still appreciate any suggestions from readers of this post as to how I should deal with the dealer and Lexus.

Kaius88

do things creak and rattle during specific temperature conditions? I think the material throughout the car tend to fit better with each other at certain temperatures. Im guessing that the console panels fit more snuggly at higher temperatures. I have a 05/06 build (purchased in July) and have none of the creeks and rattles you mentioned. My only complaint is the corners of my bumpers not fitting as snuggly as it should. I'll have that corrected at 5000 miles service. I'm still wondering if my glass UL roof is contributing to wind noise. I mean when i drive on the highway, i can still hear the traffic outside! I wish it were absolutely silent. There are 2 gaps on my roof seal that no one has been able to confirm what they are for. I'll have to post some photos.

NGG

Response to Kaius88

Ambient temperature here in British Columbia at this time of year ranges from 55 to 75 degrees F. Have not noticed if temperature has had any effect on squeeks and rattles.

Just so you know, while panels may fit more snugly in higher temperatures, I have experienced many sqeeks and rattles in other cars in serious sub-zero temps where the plastics get harder and more brittle.

ES350Bob

I am so glad you posted your info. It was too dark for me to really inspect that underside of that shelf though it appears visible from what I could see.
I will go out in am in sunlight and do it because something is loose back there.

I noticed when I tried to feel the underside of the metal of that shelf I could hear that metal glass combo sound and then when I closed the trunk I could really hear it.

I tapped on the glass and there was a sound very similar to what I was hearing in the car, the neighbor walked over and he helped me try to isolate where it was coming from. It is loose metal somewhere of the entire metal surround of the glass that the back glass is attached to.

I am so mad at myself for discounting and ignoring and paying no attention to that rattle right now as something is very wrong there and I am anxious for better lighting to see if it is more than that metal surround the glass is laying on and attached to.

As for your car, if you do not feel safe and would not ever in that car, then tell them you want another car and if you do not want the car, then tell them that you want your money back.

riley2620

Hi NGC! My car currently has about 2400 miles on it. The rear shelf rattle started when the car was new. The dealer had the car for 10 or 12 days and had to disassemble the entire rear area - remove glass, headliner, trunklid, seat etc. etc. Same as yours, they told me it was a bad spot weld that they corrected. The problem seemed to be solved for about a month then returned with a vengeance! I also have a very bothersome rattle in the front passenger area.

After being told by Lexus customer service "that there was nothing wrong with my car" I pushed forward and the service manager at my dealer agreed to ride with me along with a tech. Luckily the car made both noises. The car has now been at the dealer for five days and again they are looking for problems "deep inside the car" and have it disassembled.

It appears to me that the flexing in the structure popped the weld again. I too share your concern about the overall structural integrity of the car. I'll see when they come up with this time, this will now be my third strike on these problems.

I'll keep you posted. My car also has the cold start diesel noise - the dealer claims it's the timing chain and the cold mixture due to emissions and the exhaust system. They say it is normal. I have an RX350 loaner - only has 500 miles - it too makes the noise but is less noticible - perhaps there is more insulation on this car. Last time I had an ES350 with 1000 miles, it too made the noise but not as loudly as mine.

ES350Bob

Riley,

I too have had issues told to me are normal by Lexus corporate/customer service even though the dealer diagnosed valve problems as one example.

So far my rattle is in the same area as yours and NGG as to back shelf area. No question when it is looked into the back glass will have to be removed in order to secure whatever metal connection is loose, so far that's all I know about it.

I just love it that no matter what issue is raised, that honorable, decent, ethical people would also raise, or reputable company would otherwise take seriously and address, is constantly called normal for the ES350, normal operation of one, even though no other prior owned car, including Lexus, that I drove in the past ever did the things mine does.

wanderer99

Hi NGG. Some comments on your issues:
'Tocking' sound when cold - Cold engine noise, plenty of posts here on this forum with the same or similar issue. At this point its being described as normal behaviour by dealers.
Excessive wind noise - it's an issue. I need to drive a late build car to see if this still exists on the latest builds. If it is, I think we're all going to be stuck with this one.

I've had rattles on my passenger door, passenger seat belt and rear parcel shelf all fixed by my dealer. They do a good job of this. The rear parcel one was trickier and came-went-came again and seems to have disappeared again for now. Seems related (to me) to the rear sunshade. Right now its gone - I think. My dash used to have this nasty creak\pop for the first 3000 kms coming from each of the speaker grilles. If I gently pushed them down slightly it would 'pop' at me. It's gone now too.

PM me with your dealer if you like. We can compare notes.

riley2620 - nice observation on the RX350 engine. I found the RX350 engine was quieter than the ES350 one. I also thought the 5 speed trans was smoother having almost imperceptible shifts a lot of the time. what really stands out though is going 70+mph in that car and marvelling at how their is 0% wind noise around the windows and A pillar. Road noise, yes. Wind noise, no.

ES350Bob

Wanderer,

Early August I drove an RX330 loaner with roughly 14,000 miles on it.

No deisel engine noise, no steering wheel vibration and no wind noise.

In fact I said it's engine did not do what mine does with the knocking- tapping, explanation, different engine.