"Taste Of Lexus" Review...
10-22-06, 03:25 PM
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"Taste Of Lexus" Review...
...Well, I just got home from a wonderfully stimulating afternoon of gawking at and driving cars.
Here's some of my thoughts.
First off, Lexus did a wonderful job and had enough cars that the lines to drive them weren't excessively long. The entire affair was handled with polish and class. Kudos to Lexus for an entertaining and informative afternoon.
Lexus LS 460 - Very much the "big brother" to our car. Nice but not drop dead "holy cow, I can't believe it" nice. Very fast, nicely balanced and pretty flat through s-curves. On the negative side, the throttle is still very non linear with small changes corresponding to either no change in power or massive "throw you back in the seat" acceleration; the brakes, too were very notchy and "grabby" with small moduations in pressure causing unpredictable and overly aggressive braking. All in all the drivetrain was a major dissappointment in it's lack of harmony and linkage. As this is clearly present in our cars (the ES) one begins to think that Lexus just can't get engines and tranny's to link together properly.
M-B S 550 - WOW!!! Both inside and out, this car radiates class and elegance. Literally everything about it pretty much screams "in this car you have reached the pinnacle of automotive sophistication and refinement." Everything looks like quality and radiates good taste. Awesome, simply awesome. The engine is incredibly torquey (sp?) and it feels like the ability to accelerate is limitless. Power delivery is entirely linear with the degree to which the accelerator is pressed and there is no hesitation whatsoever when you push the gas pedal. Power delivery is immediate with your right foot, the accelerator pedal and the drivetrain all feeling as if they are governed by one mind. Very impressive! The transmission is as smooth as fresh butter and you never feel any shift points at all. On the negative side, the car is heavy and the front end doesn't respond to rapid direction changes as nimbly as the Lexus. There is very little body lean, however and the car maintains a nice neutral posture thru s-curves. The steering is positively awful. The steering wheel is too big and feels like a Mack truck it's so heavily weighted. All this comes at a price (what doesn't?). $86k is what you'll need to bring one of these home.
BMW 750i - This is one seriously ugly car. And you know what? It gets even worse (if that's possible) when you get in. The interior looks cheap and as if it's ergonomics (I admittedly use the term loosely) were designed by a psychotic, retarded person. Buttons and ***** are strewn everywhere with little or no apparent planning. The button to adjust seat position is mindlessly placed on the side of the center stack by your right knee. Buttons are everywhere and you don't even want to get me started on the mind nubbingly dumb-assed "I-Drive" system. It's all a design and ergonomic nightmare. Chris Bangle should be shot for the exterior but whoever "designed" (again, I use the term loosely as this thing doesn't appear so much designed as thrown into some cosmic blender and put together based on whatever spilled out) the interior should be given to Saddam Hussein's kids (if they were still alive, but I guess you get my point). Now onto something a bit more pleasant. The car drives like a dream. As with the M-B, there is total harmony between the engine, transmission and accelerator pedal. Power delivery is immediate and the thing is a rocket ship. There is essentially no body lean and it handles like a slot car. Pretty impressive for a 4500 lb. vehicle. There is simply nothing bad to say about the driving dynamics of this champ. If you could get by it's "Ugly Betty" appearance and hideous interior, this is a killer car. And a steal at "only" $74k.
Lexus SC 430 - Ughhh! Who buys this thing? It looks like an upside down bathtub. It's proportions are all wrong and it's cramped inside. It's not terribly fast and it handles like a Cunard ocean liner. I simply don't know what to say. This baby is just a joke.
Lexus GS 450h - OK, I'm on record as saying that I despise the hatchback appearance of the GS and I stick to that. And the interior is cramped. I couldn't car less about any dimensions that Lexus publishes that say that this is as roomy (or roomier) than the ES...it's not! You feel confined and claustrophobic. It's interior is quite spartan, perhaps taking its lead from it's target demographic, the BMW 5 Series. It's instrumentation is very nice, however and thankfully there are just enough buttons and ***** to control everything that needs to be controlled on a regular basis. You say you want power? Well, let me tell you, have you come to the right place! If the BMW 750 is a rocket ship (and it is), this thing is an anti-missile missle. This thing is frighteningly fast. This must be what driving a Ferrari is like (well, maybe not quite, but close). In very unLexus-like fashion, power delivery is pretty much immediate and the car feels like it could take off with another millimeter or two of accelerator travel. The chassis is as flat as a carpenter's level and it handles s-curves with complete composure and confidence. This thing is like driving a go cart at a carnival. Except it's much bigger, has a roof and goes a whole lot faster. Oh, and it costs just a little more too ($62k). The brakes are a little notchy in reassuringly Lexus-like fashion (what's the problem here guys, you can get this right...you really need to work on this..."Relentless Pursuit of Perfection" huh?...well you have some work to do here) and you have to be very careful modulating them or they grab way too hard, a characteristic seen on just about every Lexus vehicle. If Lexus wants to know how to do brakes right, they should just copy whatever M-B is doing because, let me tell you, they have it dead solid perfect.
OK, end of rant, er, I meant review.
Flame away!
Here's some of my thoughts.
First off, Lexus did a wonderful job and had enough cars that the lines to drive them weren't excessively long. The entire affair was handled with polish and class. Kudos to Lexus for an entertaining and informative afternoon.
Lexus LS 460 - Very much the "big brother" to our car. Nice but not drop dead "holy cow, I can't believe it" nice. Very fast, nicely balanced and pretty flat through s-curves. On the negative side, the throttle is still very non linear with small changes corresponding to either no change in power or massive "throw you back in the seat" acceleration; the brakes, too were very notchy and "grabby" with small moduations in pressure causing unpredictable and overly aggressive braking. All in all the drivetrain was a major dissappointment in it's lack of harmony and linkage. As this is clearly present in our cars (the ES) one begins to think that Lexus just can't get engines and tranny's to link together properly.
M-B S 550 - WOW!!! Both inside and out, this car radiates class and elegance. Literally everything about it pretty much screams "in this car you have reached the pinnacle of automotive sophistication and refinement." Everything looks like quality and radiates good taste. Awesome, simply awesome. The engine is incredibly torquey (sp?) and it feels like the ability to accelerate is limitless. Power delivery is entirely linear with the degree to which the accelerator is pressed and there is no hesitation whatsoever when you push the gas pedal. Power delivery is immediate with your right foot, the accelerator pedal and the drivetrain all feeling as if they are governed by one mind. Very impressive! The transmission is as smooth as fresh butter and you never feel any shift points at all. On the negative side, the car is heavy and the front end doesn't respond to rapid direction changes as nimbly as the Lexus. There is very little body lean, however and the car maintains a nice neutral posture thru s-curves. The steering is positively awful. The steering wheel is too big and feels like a Mack truck it's so heavily weighted. All this comes at a price (what doesn't?). $86k is what you'll need to bring one of these home.
BMW 750i - This is one seriously ugly car. And you know what? It gets even worse (if that's possible) when you get in. The interior looks cheap and as if it's ergonomics (I admittedly use the term loosely) were designed by a psychotic, retarded person. Buttons and ***** are strewn everywhere with little or no apparent planning. The button to adjust seat position is mindlessly placed on the side of the center stack by your right knee. Buttons are everywhere and you don't even want to get me started on the mind nubbingly dumb-assed "I-Drive" system. It's all a design and ergonomic nightmare. Chris Bangle should be shot for the exterior but whoever "designed" (again, I use the term loosely as this thing doesn't appear so much designed as thrown into some cosmic blender and put together based on whatever spilled out) the interior should be given to Saddam Hussein's kids (if they were still alive, but I guess you get my point). Now onto something a bit more pleasant. The car drives like a dream. As with the M-B, there is total harmony between the engine, transmission and accelerator pedal. Power delivery is immediate and the thing is a rocket ship. There is essentially no body lean and it handles like a slot car. Pretty impressive for a 4500 lb. vehicle. There is simply nothing bad to say about the driving dynamics of this champ. If you could get by it's "Ugly Betty" appearance and hideous interior, this is a killer car. And a steal at "only" $74k.
Lexus SC 430 - Ughhh! Who buys this thing? It looks like an upside down bathtub. It's proportions are all wrong and it's cramped inside. It's not terribly fast and it handles like a Cunard ocean liner. I simply don't know what to say. This baby is just a joke.
Lexus GS 450h - OK, I'm on record as saying that I despise the hatchback appearance of the GS and I stick to that. And the interior is cramped. I couldn't car less about any dimensions that Lexus publishes that say that this is as roomy (or roomier) than the ES...it's not! You feel confined and claustrophobic. It's interior is quite spartan, perhaps taking its lead from it's target demographic, the BMW 5 Series. It's instrumentation is very nice, however and thankfully there are just enough buttons and ***** to control everything that needs to be controlled on a regular basis. You say you want power? Well, let me tell you, have you come to the right place! If the BMW 750 is a rocket ship (and it is), this thing is an anti-missile missle. This thing is frighteningly fast. This must be what driving a Ferrari is like (well, maybe not quite, but close). In very unLexus-like fashion, power delivery is pretty much immediate and the car feels like it could take off with another millimeter or two of accelerator travel. The chassis is as flat as a carpenter's level and it handles s-curves with complete composure and confidence. This thing is like driving a go cart at a carnival. Except it's much bigger, has a roof and goes a whole lot faster. Oh, and it costs just a little more too ($62k). The brakes are a little notchy in reassuringly Lexus-like fashion (what's the problem here guys, you can get this right...you really need to work on this..."Relentless Pursuit of Perfection" huh?...well you have some work to do here) and you have to be very careful modulating them or they grab way too hard, a characteristic seen on just about every Lexus vehicle. If Lexus wants to know how to do brakes right, they should just copy whatever M-B is doing because, let me tell you, they have it dead solid perfect.
OK, end of rant, er, I meant review.
Flame away!
Last edited by PsychDoc; 10-25-06 at 11:43 AM.
10-22-06, 03:54 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
ok Psych..I'm thinking the MB had you at hello it has a KEY!!!!!
It is an amazing car and dare I say it and hear some objections as a result, in appearance more masculine interior than Lexus.
It is an amazing car and dare I say it and hear some objections as a result, in appearance more masculine interior than Lexus.
10-24-06, 04:45 PM
#5
Lexus SC 430 - Ughhh! Who buys this thing? It looks like an upside down bathtub. It's proportions are all wrong and it's cramped inside. It's not terribly fast and it handles like a Cunard ocean liner. I simply don't know what to say. This baby is just a joke.
Well I happen to drive one and I absolutely love it. Nicest car I have ever owned or driven regularly. My wife has an ES 350 and that's a great car as well.
If I were you I wouldn't give up the day job to become an auto reviewer or writer as well.
JTMav
Well I happen to drive one and I absolutely love it. Nicest car I have ever owned or driven regularly. My wife has an ES 350 and that's a great car as well.
If I were you I wouldn't give up the day job to become an auto reviewer or writer as well.
JTMav
10-24-06, 07:03 PM
#6
I know what you mean about vehicles having an engine\trans synergy, and how some cars have this and others don't. I'm amazed Lexus hasn't worked this out yet - they're ahead of everyone else on Interiors and luxury. The trans\engine combo is so important to enjoying the car!
ES300\330 - Trans just didn't seem to know what was going on. Engine was a little underpowered, but it was very smooth.
Some other cars I've driven that stick in my memory:
Volvo S80 - Smooth engine, smooth trans. Really smooth slick combo in AWD.
2005 Denali - Smooth powerful engine, smooth trans. GM make some nice powertrain combos.
Chev Equinox - smooth engine\trans at low RPM. Put the cruise control on when climbing mountain passes and its sooo funny - trans will lock at engine redline (screaming) and just stay there and never change gears.. even when vehicle returns to flat road. You have to break from cruise, or put the car in neutral to get it out of that mode.
Synergy on the ES? It's just not there for me. But I do have trans issues so maybe I should not pass judgement on that.
ES300\330 - Trans just didn't seem to know what was going on. Engine was a little underpowered, but it was very smooth.
Some other cars I've driven that stick in my memory:
Volvo S80 - Smooth engine, smooth trans. Really smooth slick combo in AWD.
2005 Denali - Smooth powerful engine, smooth trans. GM make some nice powertrain combos.
Chev Equinox - smooth engine\trans at low RPM. Put the cruise control on when climbing mountain passes and its sooo funny - trans will lock at engine redline (screaming) and just stay there and never change gears.. even when vehicle returns to flat road. You have to break from cruise, or put the car in neutral to get it out of that mode.
Synergy on the ES? It's just not there for me. But I do have trans issues so maybe I should not pass judgement on that.
10-25-06, 04:19 AM
#7
So, It's clear now that I am not the only one to be quite disappointed with the engine / tranny harmony. Had similar issues with my ES300, but one would think they would have engineered a better beast after ten years.
Oh well, otherwise the car is so wonderfully smooth I guess I will learn to live with it as I did with my 300. It was worth it, as over those ten years the car only went into service for scheduled maintenance.
Knock, knock, knock....
Oh well, otherwise the car is so wonderfully smooth I guess I will learn to live with it as I did with my 300. It was worth it, as over those ten years the car only went into service for scheduled maintenance.
Knock, knock, knock....
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10-25-06, 06:23 AM
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Lexus SC 430 - Ughhh! Who buys this thing? It looks like an upside down bathtub. It's proportions are all wrong and it's cramped inside. It's not terribly fast and it handles like a Cunard ocean liner. I simply don't know what to say. This baby is just a joke.
Well I happen to drive one and I absolutely love it. Nicest car I have ever owned or driven regularly. My wife has an ES 350 and that's a great car as well.
If I were you I wouldn't give up the day job to become an auto reviewer or writer as well.
JTMav
Well I happen to drive one and I absolutely love it. Nicest car I have ever owned or driven regularly. My wife has an ES 350 and that's a great car as well.
If I were you I wouldn't give up the day job to become an auto reviewer or writer as well.
JTMav
And those weird dimensions. The roof and cabin are way too small for the large, and clearly overweight body. The trunk is ovoid shaped and looks just all wrong for this mess of a car. If the Boxster and Cayman's are viewed as 'athletic' then this disaster must be viewed as the poster child for a Weight Watchers meeting.
Sorry, but facts are facts.
You have my condolences.
Last edited by PsychDoc; 10-25-06 at 10:44 AM.
10-25-06, 10:46 AM
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So the engine-tranny synery harmony is basically "you press the gas and the car takes off instantly"? I think I know how the ES sometimes takes a split second before it actually responds. I notice sometimes when i try to pass people on local streets, I press the gas and I hear "rrrrrrrrrr" for like 1/2 second and then "vrooooooooooooom" as I kinda shoot forward. I wish I could skip the "rrrrrrrrrrr" part because a split second makes a difference indeed.
I know the MB S550 is classy and expensive. I classify the exterior look as "square" just like the Lexus LS class. These cars are powerful and im sure fast and luxurious. But I really dont see any personality from the exterior. Kinda plain actually IMHO.
I know the MB S550 is classy and expensive. I classify the exterior look as "square" just like the Lexus LS class. These cars are powerful and im sure fast and luxurious. But I really dont see any personality from the exterior. Kinda plain actually IMHO.
10-25-06, 12:45 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
So after this review and comparison, can you tell me again why you rushed into buying ES350?!? 
I also wonder how did you reasoned yourself with Lexus coming in on a brand new ES350 and asking to test drive all of their other cars? Or, what that a real luxury car event where they offer you a variety of vehicles? I know a friend of my went to such an event by MB where every single model is put on a track with different obstacles (water puddles, sand spots, rough pavement, etc), and you wait your turn to drive through in every car. But, I was never aware of any similar events with a mix of different luxury cars. I also noticed no review of IS in there. Otherwise, I would add a dozen of more negative comments about it, after driving IS250 AWD loaner for the last 2 days
I also wonder how did you reasoned yourself with Lexus coming in on a brand new ES350 and asking to test drive all of their other cars? Or, what that a real luxury car event where they offer you a variety of vehicles? I know a friend of my went to such an event by MB where every single model is put on a track with different obstacles (water puddles, sand spots, rough pavement, etc), and you wait your turn to drive through in every car. But, I was never aware of any similar events with a mix of different luxury cars. I also noticed no review of IS in there. Otherwise, I would add a dozen of more negative comments about it, after driving IS250 AWD loaner for the last 2 days
10-25-06, 02:07 PM
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So after this review and comparison, can you tell me again why you rushed into buying ES350?!?
I also wonder how did you reasoned yourself with Lexus coming in on a brand new ES350 and asking to test drive all of their other cars? Or, what that a real luxury car event where they offer you a variety of vehicles? I know a friend of my went to such an event by MB where every single model is put on a track with different obstacles (water puddles, sand spots, rough pavement, etc), and you wait your turn to drive through in every car. But, I was never aware of any similar events with a mix of different luxury cars. I also noticed no review of IS in there. Otherwise, I would add a dozen of more negative comments about it, after driving IS250 AWD loaner for the last 2 days
I also wonder how did you reasoned yourself with Lexus coming in on a brand new ES350 and asking to test drive all of their other cars? Or, what that a real luxury car event where they offer you a variety of vehicles? I know a friend of my went to such an event by MB where every single model is put on a track with different obstacles (water puddles, sand spots, rough pavement, etc), and you wait your turn to drive through in every car. But, I was never aware of any similar events with a mix of different luxury cars. I also noticed no review of IS in there. Otherwise, I would add a dozen of more negative comments about it, after driving IS250 AWD loaner for the last 2 days
As to why I went to the even or have any interest in cars other than the ES, I guess I can say I have been a "car guy" for the last 25 years or so, so I truly enjoy seeing what's out there and putting them thru their paces as it were.
10-26-06, 02:32 AM
#14
In a world of Porshe Caymans and Boxters, your decision is entirely inexplicable. The SC handles like an ocean liner in a tsunami. And while this might be marginally acceptable in an ES, it's entirely unacceptable in a car that even has pretensions of being a sports car.
And those weird dimensions. The roof and cabin are way too small for the large, and clearly overweight body. The trunk is ovoid shaped and looks just all wrong for this mess of a car. If the Boxster and Cayman's are viewed as 'athletic' then this disaster must be viewed as the poster child for a Weight Watchers meeting.
Sorry, but facts are facts.
You have my condolences.
And those weird dimensions. The roof and cabin are way too small for the large, and clearly overweight body. The trunk is ovoid shaped and looks just all wrong for this mess of a car. If the Boxster and Cayman's are viewed as 'athletic' then this disaster must be viewed as the poster child for a Weight Watchers meeting.
Sorry, but facts are facts.
You have my condolences.
JTMav
10-26-06, 04:02 AM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
... forgot to ask if you have experienced that hands-free parallel parking with LS? I'm sure that would of been a highlight of this event. Of course, seeing it from outside and experiencing this while sitting inside is a totally different thing. I wonder how much insurance is going to be for LS? Makes my wonder, since everything should be based on a laser (or sonar radar) guidance, what if something malfunctions and you hit other two cars? Who is paying for damages, you/insurance or Lexus? 
Would be interesting to read more about the technology. I don't think you can achieve such an accuracy with a sonar radar (like the one used in park assist), while laser guidance will be more accurate approximation of distance. But than, in a bad weather of rain/snow, how does that work? Anyway, those LS tv commercials has been playing non-stop every 15 minutes....
BTW, it takes a lot of confidens to have an event of your own cars and bring top notch competition for a comparison. This is a first one I heard of. Way to go Lexus!!!
Makes my wonder, since everything should be based on a laser (or sonar radar) guidance, what if something malfunctions and you hit other two cars? Who is paying for damages, you/insurance or Lexus? Would be interesting to read more about the technology. I don't think you can achieve such an accuracy with a sonar radar (like the one used in park assist), while laser guidance will be more accurate approximation of distance. But than, in a bad weather of rain/snow, how does that work? Anyway, those LS tv commercials has been playing non-stop every 15 minutes....BTW, it takes a lot of confidens to have an event of your own cars and bring top notch competition for a comparison. This is a first one I heard of. Way to go Lexus!!!