LexBob2

Bob, so now we're questioning Toyota/Lexus sales reporting figures?? Quite a conspiracy going on! Suffice it to say, there are A LOT of ES's out there, MANY of which are problem free. I agree, way too early for an accurate reliability report, but MANY of your problems surfaced early in ownership, and I think this type of disatisfaction would would have been reflected in others surveys if widespread..

dreyfus

Since Consumer Reports (so far as I know) is not in the habit of publishing statistically (or scientifically) invalid reports on the products they investigate, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt here. This is their business, after all.

Nevertheless, the upcoming report that comes after their big annual survey will provide us with a fuller picture of what’s going on, which is what we’re talking about here. Our poll with 104 responses does not a thorough study make.

ES350Bob

I got the figure of 70,000 units as a goal of Toyota/Lexus by reading the article of a reviewer as stated to him by Lexus/Toyota officials and published within the last month, not by me, you can find it on here and I believe it was the one by Healey.

You yourself posted under window issue subject sales for ES were roughly 12,000 units for September October which would be roughly 6,000 units a month for the last 6 months they have been available or 36,000 units sold. Even at 8,000 sold per month that would 48,000 units sold not the 60,000 you posted.

LexFather

This is about right, I think they shot for 65k but 70k is within reach. I do know they want to capture a 17% market share with the ES and IS at 120k units a year but the IS has blown past its expectations of 44k a year (near 60k) so they are doing great.

LexBob2

Here are the Toyota/Lexus sales figures from the Home Page of this owners club forum. 60,573 ES350's sold year to date thru October '06. 6,357 sold during the month of October. If this rate of sales continues thru November and December (6,000+ per month), that will be another 12,000-13,000 cars sold in '06. Adding 60,573 + 12,000 (or so) = 72,573. Pretty close to their stated goal of 70,000, eh?

ES350Bob

1sick,

I can see why the IS has passed expectations, they are very nice looking, when I was at service several times I kept looking at them each time I was there and thinking maybe I should have looked closer at them instead and seems I would have saved myself a lot of grief if I did.

dreyfus

No matter the exact number of ES350s sold to date, the point that our very limited surveys and discussions here on CL do not give us the full picture remains. They're useful and good and that's why we're all here in the first place. But we must remember our somewhat limited perspective which is unavoidable with CL contributors being so small a subset of the total ES350 owner population.

ES350Bob

If you look at the sales data posted you will notice they do not distinguish the 330 from the 350 and that may be why you think or thought 60,000 of the 350 were sold ytd. Go to the Toyota website and you will find released figures on just the 350.

But to answer your question, I got those projections from an article whose source was stated as Toyota/Lexus, not me or from my own head or part of any conspiracy.

ES350Bob

dreyfus,

The fine print will get you every time. This not a survey of actual owners, it is a prediction based on prior years models. Our local paper had that in not so fine print, then I went to the link and sure enough here is what the article has at top of rankings.
"Best and worst predicted reliability, according to Consumer Reports survey research."

LexBob2

Amen. Well said Dreyfus. Enough said on this....

Pheonix

Exactly. It's like I tell people elsewhere. Toyota has probably sold 500,000-900,000 varryants of the Camry platform in North America every year for atleast the last 10 years.
Yet there are FOUR forums of any real note on the internet basically dedicated to them. (ToyotaNation, Solaraguy, Lexus Owners Club, ClubLexus) And of those, only ToyotaNation is even a drop in the bucket when it comes to a descent number of owners.

So now we have the gross proliferation of the internet. Of all the cars sold. When people *do* come online asking about problems. Atleast 90% of those asking about problems stem from user-error, or maintenance issues to begin with. Not poor initial design.








The Camry platform in North America:
Camry
Solara
Avalon
Sienna
Highlander
ES xxx
RX xxx

LexFather

I've been a hardcore poster and mod here for 5+ years.
1. People who have issues, look for forums and post them
2. Happy people are happy, rarely post "I love my car". However, people with issues are quick to post "this is wrong, help"
3. Thus it can make people think the problem is larger than it seems.

Not saying at all Lexus does not have issues, they do but they have the LEAST amount of any brand.

LexFather

Lexus had to make the IS this good. While the ES has enjoyed Sales and review success since the 2nd gen in 1992 (That car was actually a 10 best winner), the 1st gen IS while winning reviewers over, was a sales failure.

Like you, when I first drive it (and when I get an IS loaner) it does make me grin, fantastic car.

ES350Bob

Since the Consumer Reports is a set of predictions based on prior years I take a different view. I have more faith in forums like this it seems than those who got cars they report are problem free and I do because more or less this is a collection of actual owners who respond to the polls and offer their experiences, these are not psychic friends network predictions, but actual cars. It is those who got problem free cars that seem to insist issues are limited or that an issue could not be widespread.

Even Toyota places more stock in forums like this than those who try to insist these forums are not a good litmus test. There was an article where software was changed for Toyota model based on complaints on internet forums. It's on here somehwere.

Also if you look at those with just transmission issues, you see several indicate(d) they are on a waiting list for the TSIB valve body to be shipped due to backorder, not something that would occur with only a handful of problem transmissions. Also the meter used to detect the 3 to 4 flare was sent to all Lexus dealers not something done if only a small number had this issue, they'd save the money and aggravation in not buying those meters and instead just replace the complainers transmissions or valve body when the "infrequent" complainer drove in, on the other hand if they knew this was widespread potential they'd do what they did.

Lastly, when at service, I was told they were inundated with rattle complaints and would take all the help they could get, looking at Celibon's poll, 20 percent, plus or minus, reflects the exasperation related to me. I even gave a couple of location pointers I had picked up on here to offer some help to them to find the source of the rattles they were charged with ceasing and which was driving them nuts. I told them to call Lexus of Glendale as I kept seeing that dealer mentioned associated with rattle terminators.

Maybe I am biased about Club Lexus, but for me, if you want accuracy about a Lexus, this is THE place to get it.

LexBob2

Bob, perhaps then, you should have waited to buy your ES's, until there was sufficient informaton on the forums, and used them for your pre-purchase research. It seems like a few posters have checked in here to dicuss concerns and problems prior to buying.