Transmission Flare Awareness Test
11-10-06, 05:12 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Transmission Flare Awareness Test
After much good spirited debate about the transmission flare issue and whether a vehicle has it or not, is overlooked by people or other, here is a simple test you can do to determine your own ability to detect whether your vehicle has it or not.
When your car is on and is in park or at a stop light do you notice BOTH an increase in RPM by observation of tach and by engine sound revving up when you rotate your steering wheel slightly left or right even though you are at a standstill?
You should be able to both see and hear an increase in RPM. If not, you just might not catch a flare when it happens either.
If on the other hand you BOTH see the tach spike upward and hear the engine rev increase simply by rotating the steering wheel slightly, then mentally triple or quadruple that sound and the RPM spike seen on tach to get an idea of what the "flare" is like to experience. Now, the flare can start off mild, as in mentally double the above and then increase to triple or quadruple or worse depending on your typical acceleration habit. It seems most often connected to shifting between 3 and 4 but some of us have indicated 2 to 3 and less often 3 to 4. Either way, you will both see and hear it if you have it.
If you cannot hear the engine rev with the above test when at idle it is somewhat possible you may miss or not notice as much the rev sound when a flare happens, but you should still be able to see it on tach when it does. If you cannot hear the engine rev when doing that simple sterring wheel rotation test it might be time to see an audiologist or you got one very rare quiet engine or you live in an area surrounded by a lot of city noise or other.
When your car is on and is in park or at a stop light do you notice BOTH an increase in RPM by observation of tach and by engine sound revving up when you rotate your steering wheel slightly left or right even though you are at a standstill?
You should be able to both see and hear an increase in RPM. If not, you just might not catch a flare when it happens either.
If on the other hand you BOTH see the tach spike upward and hear the engine rev increase simply by rotating the steering wheel slightly, then mentally triple or quadruple that sound and the RPM spike seen on tach to get an idea of what the "flare" is like to experience. Now, the flare can start off mild, as in mentally double the above and then increase to triple or quadruple or worse depending on your typical acceleration habit. It seems most often connected to shifting between 3 and 4 but some of us have indicated 2 to 3 and less often 3 to 4. Either way, you will both see and hear it if you have it.
If you cannot hear the engine rev with the above test when at idle it is somewhat possible you may miss or not notice as much the rev sound when a flare happens, but you should still be able to see it on tach when it does. If you cannot hear the engine rev when doing that simple sterring wheel rotation test it might be time to see an audiologist or you got one very rare quiet engine or you live in an area surrounded by a lot of city noise or other.
11-10-06, 08:11 PM
#2
Pole Position
After much good spirited debate about the transmission flare issue and whether a vehicle has it or not, is overlooked by people or other, here is a simple test you can do to determine your own ability to detect whether your vehicle has it or not.
When your car is on and is in park or at a stop light do you notice BOTH an increase in RPM by observation of tach and by engine sound revving up when you rotate your steering wheel slightly left or right even though you are at a standstill?
You should be able to both see and hear an increase in RPM. If not, you just might not catch a flare when it happens either.
If on the other hand you BOTH see the tach spike upward and hear the engine rev increase simply by rotating the steering wheel slightly, then mentally triple or quadruple that sound and the RPM spike seen on tach to get an idea of what the "flare" is like to experience. Now, the flare can start off mild, as in mentally double the above and then increase to triple or quadruple or worse depending on your typical acceleration habit. It seems most often connected to shifting between 3 and 4 but some of us have indicated 2 to 3 and less often 3 to 4. Either way, you will both see and hear it if you have it.
If you cannot hear the engine rev with the above test when at idle it is somewhat possible you may miss or not notice as much the rev sound when a flare happens, but you should still be able to see it on tach when it does. If you cannot hear the engine rev when doing that simple steering wheel rotation test it might be time to see an audiologist or you got one very rare quiet engine or you live in an area surrounded by a lot of city noise or other.
When your car is on and is in park or at a stop light do you notice BOTH an increase in RPM by observation of tach and by engine sound revving up when you rotate your steering wheel slightly left or right even though you are at a standstill?
You should be able to both see and hear an increase in RPM. If not, you just might not catch a flare when it happens either.
If on the other hand you BOTH see the tach spike upward and hear the engine rev increase simply by rotating the steering wheel slightly, then mentally triple or quadruple that sound and the RPM spike seen on tach to get an idea of what the "flare" is like to experience. Now, the flare can start off mild, as in mentally double the above and then increase to triple or quadruple or worse depending on your typical acceleration habit. It seems most often connected to shifting between 3 and 4 but some of us have indicated 2 to 3 and less often 3 to 4. Either way, you will both see and hear it if you have it.
If you cannot hear the engine rev with the above test when at idle it is somewhat possible you may miss or not notice as much the rev sound when a flare happens, but you should still be able to see it on tach when it does. If you cannot hear the engine rev when doing that simple steering wheel rotation test it might be time to see an audiologist or you got one very rare quiet engine or you live in an area surrounded by a lot of city noise or other.
I am glad I tried your test. Yup, when you turn the wheel slightly, while in gear and the brake applied. How much? 100-200 rpm. I would get rid of a car where I could feel or hear that small of a deviation. Now tripled or quadrupled I could tell from the feel but not much from the sound - my engine is pretty quiet and I drive with the windows up 99% of the time.
I do not note a transmission flare or miscommunication unless I do something stupid like shift the car manually in the wrong direction. Even then it is forgiving of my actions. Sorry, my tranny is working fine at 5600 mi.
11-11-06, 03:49 AM
#3
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I am glad I tried your test. Yup, when you turn the wheel slightly, while in gear and the brake applied. How much? 100-200 rpm. I would get rid of a car where I could feel or hear that small of a deviation. Now tripled or quadrupled I could tell from the feel but not much from the sound - my engine is pretty quiet and I drive with the windows up 99% of the time.
I do not note a transmission flare or miscommunication unless I do something stupid like shift the car manually in the wrong direction. Even then it is forgiving of my actions. Sorry, my tranny is working fine at 5600 mi.
I do not note a transmission flare or miscommunication unless I do something stupid like shift the car manually in the wrong direction. Even then it is forgiving of my actions. Sorry, my tranny is working fine at 5600 mi.
Thanks Pete,
You helped further my view that if people had this "flare" happening they would be aware of it in some fashion with very few exceptions and not fail to notice it.
As to hearing the steering test or feeling it in steering wheel when doing it, get a few loaners under your belt and report back afterward.
11-11-06, 08:29 AM
#4
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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You do know I was just be facetious... 
Seriously though--I'll have to perform the steering wheel test you mentioned; is that (rpm spike when turning the wheel while vehicle is parked) normal? I would find it hard to believe if that's the case...but then again I don't claim to know everything about the mechanical aspects of the ES 350...
11-11-06, 09:59 AM
#5
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Hmmm...is this the same car that's (supposedly) engineered such that the interior should practically be devoid of any wind noise at speeds of up to around 60 mph or so, yet somehow can't block out engine noise associated with a relatively-small 200 rpm (or so) increase while the engine is idleing--which BTW I think I've read in this forum where at least one person has stated that he can't even hear the engine at idle (600 rpm) while inside the vehicle? I'd say that your comment about seeing an audiologist would be more appropriate/applicable towards someone who claims that he/she does not hear ANY wind noise while travelling at 60-70 mph... You do know I was just be facetious...
Seriously though--I'll have to perform the steering wheel test you mentioned; is that (rpm spike when turning the wheel while vehicle is parked) normal? I would find it hard to believe if that's the case...but then again I don't claim to know everything about the mechanical aspects of the ES 350...
You do know I was just be facetious... Seriously though--I'll have to perform the steering wheel test you mentioned; is that (rpm spike when turning the wheel while vehicle is parked) normal? I would find it hard to believe if that's the case...but then again I don't claim to know everything about the mechanical aspects of the ES 350...
You could lower the hearing the wind noise threshold down to roughly 45 mph, if not heard, run don't walk to an audiologist...LOL
The RPM spike with steering adjustments is normal from what I can tell as every ES350 I have driven does this. And not hearing it might be time for the audiologist appointment to be made or awareness of surrounding noise intrusion keeping you from hearing it, or the part you love to see written or claimed, whisper quiet or silent idle prevents the owner from hearing it...LOL.
I did find it annoying a time or two during breaking from a straightaway making into a curve though. The decel of breaking would spike the RPM as would the steering adjustment and the combo was alarming until you got used to it.
As for quiet idles, did you ever own an ES300? If so you'd know what a "quiet" idle is as anyone who owned one likely would vouch, Or, maybe go check out the new LS on a drive and when you get it back put it in park, and hear the "quiet"...LOL
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