**VIDEO** Transmission Flair / RPM Spike
11-12-06, 12:01 PM
#16
Lexus Champion
LOL... there are thousands of "casual" ES drivers like me on the road to enjoy the ride of ES. Unless this is a safety concern or the anormaly become obvious and consistant every day, it does not justify spending much of my time. If the car failed, I am sure my lexus dealer will take care of it.
11-12-06, 12:13 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
I can make it happen every day... I can also make it not happen.
IMO - - It all depends on how warm the car is, this is further evidenced by numerous instances of people saying it happens at the same spot. Humans are creatures of habit.
However confident I may be in my ability, I've not had the desire yet to get into a "no it doesn't, yes it does" conversation with my dealer about it.
Whatever the cause of this issue, replacement parts and or cars has not solved the problem, I clearly documented it being a "one time" occurance because the next shift sequence was flawless. FWIW - when the flare occurs and as can be heard in the video, the cold engine and transmission is a common noise to me.
I'm getting deeper into understanding the innards... I found reference to the programming issues I'm thinking exist. I've obtained a service manual and am beginning to get an understanding of the complexities, currently it's broken up and I'm trying to locate page SS-46 (shift schedule)
4th Gear Up-shift Prohibition Control
• Engine coolant temperature is 47°C (117°F)
or less and vehicle speed is 31 mph (49 km/
h) or less.
Lock-up Prohibition Control
• Brake pedal is depressed.
• Accelerator pedal is released.
• Engine coolant temperature is 60°C (140°F)
or less.
IMO - - It all depends on how warm the car is, this is further evidenced by numerous instances of people saying it happens at the same spot. Humans are creatures of habit.
However confident I may be in my ability, I've not had the desire yet to get into a "no it doesn't, yes it does" conversation with my dealer about it.
Whatever the cause of this issue, replacement parts and or cars has not solved the problem, I clearly documented it being a "one time" occurance because the next shift sequence was flawless. FWIW - when the flare occurs and as can be heard in the video, the cold engine and transmission is a common noise to me.
I'm getting deeper into understanding the innards... I found reference to the programming issues I'm thinking exist. I've obtained a service manual and am beginning to get an understanding of the complexities, currently it's broken up and I'm trying to locate page SS-46 (shift schedule)
4th Gear Up-shift Prohibition Control
• Engine coolant temperature is 47°C (117°F)
or less and vehicle speed is 31 mph (49 km/
h) or less.
Lock-up Prohibition Control
• Brake pedal is depressed.
• Accelerator pedal is released.
• Engine coolant temperature is 60°C (140°F)
or less.
more power to you if you find software glitches of any kind, but don't post them on here, charge Lexus for your work for goodness sake, after all a lot of people are inconvenienced over this and others are paid good money to the point this should not be happening in the first place.
My Dad, he's 87, cracks me up about his wind noise ideas and remedies, he says once he has ironed out exactly what all causes are and remedies for same "it will cost them" for you it's free...LOL...
11-12-06, 12:34 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
ons...
When you are not on this mission, see if you can figure out why our trans are not shifting to 6th as stated to me when you release the accelerator or apply the brake and are instead behaving like a downshifting stick shift car, including at times slightly slinging you forward, when you paid for an automatic to avoid all that. That has to be software of some kind not behaving correctly if it was stated to me (default?) is 6th gear.
You can PM with your detailed thoughts on that if you want.
But I'm thinking you have already noticed this about your own car too and wondered why already.
When you are not on this mission, see if you can figure out why our trans are not shifting to 6th as stated to me when you release the accelerator or apply the brake and are instead behaving like a downshifting stick shift car, including at times slightly slinging you forward, when you paid for an automatic to avoid all that. That has to be software of some kind not behaving correctly if it was stated to me (default?) is 6th gear.
You can PM with your detailed thoughts on that if you want.
But I'm thinking you have already noticed this about your own car too and wondered why already.
11-12-06, 12:59 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
ons...
When you are not on this mission, see if you can figure out why our trans are not shifting to 6th as stated to me when you release the accelerator or apply the brake and are instead behaving like a downshifting stick shift car, including at times slightly slinging you forward, when you paid for an automatic to avoid all that. That has to be software of some kind not behaving correctly if it was stated to me (default?) is 6th gear.
You can PM with your detailed thoughts on that if you want.
But I'm thinking you have already noticed this about your own car too and wondered why already.
When you are not on this mission, see if you can figure out why our trans are not shifting to 6th as stated to me when you release the accelerator or apply the brake and are instead behaving like a downshifting stick shift car, including at times slightly slinging you forward, when you paid for an automatic to avoid all that. That has to be software of some kind not behaving correctly if it was stated to me (default?) is 6th gear.
You can PM with your detailed thoughts on that if you want.
But I'm thinking you have already noticed this about your own car too and wondered why already.
11-12-06, 01:14 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
Bob, while your new car still has low mileage, have you considered selling it back to your new dealer? You no doubt would get a good price for it and the dealer would sell it as a Certified Pre-Owned. The proceeds from the sell back would more than cover the cost of an Accord EX V-6, Maxima SL, Hyundai Azera or Buick Lucerne, all nice cars with good levels of equipment. This would minimize any additional any out of pocket cost and get you into something different. Just a thought.
Maybe Wanderer, Gooch or the others on here with as many issues as the former car of mine might consider doing that though, suggest that to them and let me know what they think about the idea.
11-12-06, 02:55 PM
#21
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That was one heckuva video, your deserve a pay raise.
Let me begin by saying, my ES has 5K miles on it and is a 06/06 build, picked up early 07/06. I drive it closer to Andretti than Granny (about an 8+) and it operates in in a rather warm climate (Fla).
Each morning after starting it up --- the RPM's stayed steady at 750, with no flare shifts(sic) noticed when driving. This Fri and Sat mornings the temps dropped to below 50 degrees. On both days when starting my car the RPM's registered 1000 and steady. When gunning it down the road, there were minor jumps in RPM's when gears changed. IMHO I believe this is a function of the ECU. After the engine warmed up the RPM's were back down to 750 and steady. Today with temps above 50 we are back to 750 RPM's at startup.
This exact thing happens on my Caddy STS and Infiniti M. So, is it a tranny problem or an ECU adjusting the engine to weather/temps? Inquiring minds want to know.
Let me begin by saying, my ES has 5K miles on it and is a 06/06 build, picked up early 07/06. I drive it closer to Andretti than Granny (about an 8+) and it operates in in a rather warm climate (Fla).
Each morning after starting it up --- the RPM's stayed steady at 750, with no flare shifts(sic) noticed when driving. This Fri and Sat mornings the temps dropped to below 50 degrees. On both days when starting my car the RPM's registered 1000 and steady. When gunning it down the road, there were minor jumps in RPM's when gears changed. IMHO I believe this is a function of the ECU. After the engine warmed up the RPM's were back down to 750 and steady. Today with temps above 50 we are back to 750 RPM's at startup.
This exact thing happens on my Caddy STS and Infiniti M. So, is it a tranny problem or an ECU adjusting the engine to weather/temps? Inquiring minds want to know.
11-12-06, 03:06 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
That was one heckuva video, your deserve a pay raise.
Let me begin by saying, my ES has 5K miles on it and is a 06/06 build, picked up early 07/06. I drive it closer to Andretti than Granny (about an 8+) and it operates in in a rather warm climate (Fla).
Each morning after starting it up --- the RPM's stayed steady at 750, with no flare shifts(sic) noticed when driving. This Fri and Sat mornings the temps dropped to below 50 degrees. On both days when starting my car the RPM's registered 1000 and steady. When gunning it down the road, there were minor jumps in RPM's when gears changed. IMHO I believe this is a function of the ECU. After the engine warmed up the RPM's were back down to 750 and steady. Today with temps above 50 we are back to 750 RPM's at startup.
This exact thing happens on my Caddy STS and Infiniti M. So, is it a tranny problem or an ECU adjusting the engine to weather/temps? Inquiring minds want to know.
Let me begin by saying, my ES has 5K miles on it and is a 06/06 build, picked up early 07/06. I drive it closer to Andretti than Granny (about an 8+) and it operates in in a rather warm climate (Fla).
Each morning after starting it up --- the RPM's stayed steady at 750, with no flare shifts(sic) noticed when driving. This Fri and Sat mornings the temps dropped to below 50 degrees. On both days when starting my car the RPM's registered 1000 and steady. When gunning it down the road, there were minor jumps in RPM's when gears changed. IMHO I believe this is a function of the ECU. After the engine warmed up the RPM's were back down to 750 and steady. Today with temps above 50 we are back to 750 RPM's at startup.
This exact thing happens on my Caddy STS and Infiniti M. So, is it a tranny problem or an ECU adjusting the engine to weather/temps? Inquiring minds want to know.
I too live in Florida and this would happen (former ES350) in August as example, and the only thing I noticed about it when we had a couple of cool mornings later at end of October, am 59 degress, 60, before I traded out of it into this newer one, was the trans shifted slower than usual so the flare wasn't cooler weather specific. What I would call uneven shifting or lagging shifting was slightly noticed in cooler am temps.
11-12-06, 03:32 PM
#23
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esbob350,
You have me confused. In Florida, when you start your car in the morning, what is your normal RPM reading?
The onsknht video is really awesome. The RPM's upon a cold weather startup show 1000, which is what my cars do. The engine noise shows the engine revving up a little, which is also understandable.
So, getting back to my original question, is this a tranny problem or the ECU trying to compensate for cold weather start?
You have me confused. In Florida, when you start your car in the morning, what is your normal RPM reading?
The onsknht video is really awesome. The RPM's upon a cold weather startup show 1000, which is what my cars do. The engine noise shows the engine revving up a little, which is also understandable.
So, getting back to my original question, is this a tranny problem or the ECU trying to compensate for cold weather start?
11-12-06, 03:51 PM
#24
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Great video, same issue as with my 08/06 build. This issue does not take away from the many other benefits of the car. And, it only happens once a day when cold. If you actually don't stomp on it, it will not occur or will be less than a few hundred rpm spike. If you really don't like the spike, put the car in manual mode and hold 3rd gear (can easily go up to 50mph) until the engine is warm and then slide it into auto. You can also shift 3 to 4 manually and will not get the spike.
11-12-06, 04:03 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
esbob350,
You have me confused. In Florida, when you start your car in the morning, what is your normal RPM reading?
The onsknht video is really awesome. The RPM's upon a cold weather startup show 1000, which is what my cars do. The engine noise shows the engine revving up a little, which is also understandable.
So, getting back to my original question, is this a tranny problem or the ECU trying to compensate for cold weather start?
You have me confused. In Florida, when you start your car in the morning, what is your normal RPM reading?
The onsknht video is really awesome. The RPM's upon a cold weather startup show 1000, which is what my cars do. The engine noise shows the engine revving up a little, which is also understandable.
So, getting back to my original question, is this a tranny problem or the ECU trying to compensate for cold weather start?
I can tell you that my former car would do this in August when am temps are not like they are lately. And if you go to Yahoo you'll see several from Miami posting about their trans too in August I believe as well as California.
Since Lexus is changing out valve bodies in the transmissions and replacing entire transmissions and my own experience of recording under the hood, I'd say it is mechanical. If not the majority of those on our poll would claim they have it too.
Now the lagging or slower shifting I noticed and posted on before may just be a colder engine and a colder trans, whether that is ECU related I don't know, but no way near anything one would describe as a gear specific RPM spike
11-12-06, 04:23 PM
#26
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Nice video of what the flair/spike is. Fortunately to date this has not happened to me (08/11 build date). What I don't want is to become paranoid about it to the point where I stop enjoying the car and pay nonstop attention to possible issues. It' a very nice ride.
11-12-06, 04:24 PM
#27
I am betting that this is an ECU issue and Lexus will issue a TSB for a flash update. Of course, we have to wait until Lexus figures out the fix themselves.
After seeing the video, I took my car out and pushed it hard on a cold engine today. I gotta tell you, I can't get this car to flare. Not once.
After seeing the video, I took my car out and pushed it hard on a cold engine today. I gotta tell you, I can't get this car to flare. Not once.
11-12-06, 04:24 PM
#28
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I agree totally with the video and what TRI H2O said. I believe 3water lives on a peninsua.
Back to TRANSMISSIONS. As I am not receiving an answer to my question, it must be my bad grammer. So let me try it this way:
1. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registered 750 RPM's upon startup, experienced one of these transmission flares?
2. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registgered 1000 RPM's upon startup, NOT experienced one of these transmission flares?
Back to TRANSMISSIONS. As I am not receiving an answer to my question, it must be my bad grammer. So let me try it this way:
1. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registered 750 RPM's upon startup, experienced one of these transmission flares?
2. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registgered 1000 RPM's upon startup, NOT experienced one of these transmission flares?
11-12-06, 04:26 PM
#29
I agree totally with the video and what TRI H2O said. I believe 3water lives on a peninsua.
Back to TRANSMISSIONS. As I am not receiving an answer to my question, it must be my bad grammer. So let me try it this way:
1. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registered 750 RPM's upon startup, experienced one of these transmission flares?
2. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registgered 1000 RPM's upon startup, NOT experienced one of these transmission flares?
Back to TRANSMISSIONS. As I am not receiving an answer to my question, it must be my bad grammer. So let me try it this way:
1. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registered 750 RPM's upon startup, experienced one of these transmission flares?
2. Has anyone started an ES350 engine, which registgered 1000 RPM's upon startup, NOT experienced one of these transmission flares?
11-12-06, 04:37 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
The above is the voice of reason in my book. If you have this you will KNOW it when you do even without the ons video you'd know it and you'd post about it whether or not you had ever read of anyone else posting about it.
Same with wind noise or diesel engine knocking tapping noise, if you had them you'd KNOW it and post on it whether or not you had ever read about it beforehand.
I'm enjoying my newer car, more so because if it proves out I have this flare issue as a continuance there is no fix for it now anyway. I'll wait for THE fix and not worry about it in the meantime.