Mlawler

yeh thats what I thought but some of the Camry guys have indicated a "surge" when it happens to them..?

onsknht

No, no surge... The same as the ES, it feels almost like you accidentally bump the car into Neutral.

I do not see this as a safety concern, but it is a problem nonetheless and one which has been acknowledged to cause later damage if not repaired.

ES350Bob

Ons..,

There can be a surge and also there can be more of a going nowhere neutral type experience. I had picked up my Mom yesterday to take her to an appointment and slip as per your video and a surging forward as I was attempting to be sure I had plenty of room to move from inside lane to outside lane in front of car to my right. I'm not going to do that ever again, I'll just wait till there is 3 times the otherwise usual distance because it scared my mother--the sound and the jerking from surge-- and somewhat me as well.

onsknht

Could you better describe this 'surge?'

When I hear the term surge, I expect that the car is getting a "surge of power" and accellerating... in all my experience with the flare, there was no additional power? In fact if there were a throttle cable, it would appear that snapped in two when the flare occurred.

ES350Bob

I'll do my best...it is as though you are momentarily pinned back in the seat as part of the final experience.

Only other way I can describe it is as though you were intentionally doing a baby flare accel process but needed to change that at the very last second to more accel....that is when it will surge when it does it's slipping as part of gear catching. Otherwise....typically for me it is more or less as though your description of neutral.

onsknht

So do you think it went into 4th and surged or backshifted into 3rd because you kept depressing the pedal?

The reason I ask is in my car's final days, I noted what I would call the "kickdown flare." If I spent more time with the car I could have pinned this down further. But basically what it seemed to do in the limited instances I caught it... I would hit the pedal to pass someone, the car would kickdown and then pull a "half flare" (like riding the clutch in a standard trans) all the way up to about 5K. It was at this point I'd be thinking, "WTF" and further put my foot into it, I wanna pass this bithc... The car would then pull down another gear (2nd) then shift to 3rd and so on. The kickdown at 40-45 MPH into second was pretty violent and the car would haul the mail.

RobF350

thats what I thought you guys were talking about with the spike, but all this talk had me thinking it was something so severe that I should give the car back and start riding my bicycle.

Not worth bothering with to be perfectly honest.

ES350Bob

That could describe it, as though it momentarily went back to 3rd(?) during the slipping process, only going back for an instant at a MUCH higher RPM than when it left causing a surge forward.

kingofire

Yup, come back in about 50,000 miles and you'll agree its severe. All cars I have dealt or worked with that have had flare issues(1999-2003 Honda,Acuras) have had their trannys replaced before 85,000 miles. If you want to splurge and pay 2-3K for a tranny later or maybe trade it and move on....thats your choice. I am a closet mechanic and when you understand the dynamics of "spike" or "flare" and what it does to a tranny, you'll understand why tranny's fail. Try using google.

onsknht

HEAT!

BTW - - Appears to be a noew Toyota TSB targeting the U660E flare issue, look for Lexus to follow suit... TC002-07

http://toyotanation.com/forum/showpo...9&postcount=11

reyrey127

Hey... I just posted the TSB for the camry... feel free to read the forum.. or click the link below... ENJOY...

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t175359.html

ES350Bob

I think part of the reason people don't take this as seriously as they should is the choice of words used to describe it...flare...which pertains only to what the tach is doing and has nothing to do with the real problem....the transmission slips- fails to engage it's next gear which is why the RPM goes through the roof.

Flare is a public relations term, it sounds better than stating what is actually going on, transmission slipping, momentarily failing to engage any gear, which one least needs when pulling out into oncoming traffic and what makes it potentially injurious.

If they could hear under the hood the sound the transmission makes when it does this "flare" they would likely insist it be repaired immediately for the potential danger it poses in the right cirumstances to them or their family or they would at least be heard from insisting it be dealt with ASAP before somebody gets injured or worse.

Ons' great video, several of his videos, of it is a process he did under HIS complete control where for so many others it happens when they are not expecting it.

onsknht

Thanks reyrey... Everyone I think can now consider this case closed!

Macklin

Not until we get some real world results of the new TSIB. BUT, it's encouraging!

onsknht

I think it's very encouraging considering the economics of the TSB... This is not an inexpensive fix, someone needed to be VERY confident to release this TSB.