HELP *me* make up my mind!!!
11-18-06, 06:05 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
I originally started this thread because I had a heck of a time making that decision. Just as an update, I decided to go with GS350 AWD. I supposed to get the new car on Monday, when I also get a chance to say good bye to my TP ES350 
The way how it works, Corporate Lexus buys back the car (supposed to be everything to a penny that I paid), and I automatically roll over that amount into a purchase of '07 GS350. For everything I went through, they did work out a great deal (actually below invoice for this new '07 model, which I get without NAV or ML, plus they gave me a hard-to-turn-down deal on Sirius satellite). I had such a great experience with both service and sales sides of my dealership that I decided to keep my business with them and continue with another Lexus model. Don't want to repeat myself from previous posts, ya all know the problem I went through. I still promise to visit this ES section of CL and keep reading and posting. I also really hope when '08 ES350 going to roll in, there will be 0 post with complains, unless ES350Bob's twin brother going to buy that car 
I also wanted to clear a few points previously brought up in other thread about GS and ES. This is based on my experience of driving my non-UL ES350 for over 3 month and GS350 for 2.5 days (fully loaded with every feature under the moon). My PP+ ES350 had softer leather seats than premium GS350. That was the first thing I felt right away. I took a "full advantage" of having that GS loaner/demo, so I examined it very closely
Of course, ES is quieter inside than GS, and its expected due to "ES" luxury vs "GS" performance luxury nature. Trunk space in GS is smaller, but the trunk lid closes automatically (probably borrowed from LS?). Interior room is smaller due to AWD/RWD drivetrain taking some floor space. Also, AFS is optional on GS and don't work the same way as in ES, and therefore I didn't even choose that option for mine. BUT, the acceleration of 306 hp engine (tuned the same as in IS350), and the handling due to a sport suspension both contribute to a hair raising experience that makes up for all those missing details. I also liked how non-NAV audio system still comes with a same touch screen display for all other than NAV controls. In general, its a completely different car, so probably should not be compared to ES. Both cars are designed for a different kind of audience. I'm also happy they added a sharkfin antenna (the same as new LS460), which makes hatchback appearance of GS a little less obvious 
Sorry, didn't mean to take this thread into a different direction, but these above points where some of the deciding factors for me in choosing that car.
The way how it works, Corporate Lexus buys back the car (supposed to be everything to a penny that I paid), and I automatically roll over that amount into a purchase of '07 GS350. For everything I went through, they did work out a great deal (actually below invoice for this new '07 model, which I get without NAV or ML, plus they gave me a hard-to-turn-down deal on Sirius satellite). I had such a great experience with both service and sales sides of my dealership that I decided to keep my business with them and continue with another Lexus model. Don't want to repeat myself from previous posts, ya all know the problem I went through. I still promise to visit this ES section of CL and keep reading and posting. I also really hope when '08 ES350 going to roll in, there will be 0 post with complains, unless ES350Bob's twin brother going to buy that car I also wanted to clear a few points previously brought up in other thread about GS and ES. This is based on my experience of driving my non-UL ES350 for over 3 month and GS350 for 2.5 days (fully loaded with every feature under the moon). My PP+ ES350 had softer leather seats than premium GS350. That was the first thing I felt right away. I took a "full advantage" of having that GS loaner/demo, so I examined it very closely
Of course, ES is quieter inside than GS, and its expected due to "ES" luxury vs "GS" performance luxury nature. Trunk space in GS is smaller, but the trunk lid closes automatically (probably borrowed from LS?). Interior room is smaller due to AWD/RWD drivetrain taking some floor space. Also, AFS is optional on GS and don't work the same way as in ES, and therefore I didn't even choose that option for mine. BUT, the acceleration of 306 hp engine (tuned the same as in IS350), and the handling due to a sport suspension both contribute to a hair raising experience that makes up for all those missing details. I also liked how non-NAV audio system still comes with a same touch screen display for all other than NAV controls. In general, its a completely different car, so probably should not be compared to ES. Both cars are designed for a different kind of audience. I'm also happy they added a sharkfin antenna (the same as new LS460), which makes hatchback appearance of GS a little less obvious Sorry, didn't mean to take this thread into a different direction, but these above points where some of the deciding factors for me in choosing that car.
11-18-06, 06:46 PM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thank you guys!!! Just want to add, mine is not just a special case of Lexus taking care of the problem. I was surprised myself because buy-backs were only common for the early 03/06-05/06 tranny failures. Lexus is really committed to satisfy their customers (if you guys reading this, PM me to get my PayPal account LOL!!!!!). This should give everybody a good piece of mind. If God forbid you do get a problem with a tranny, it will be replaced promptly and you will be compensated with 100k extended warranty if you bought the car or a complete free 3-year maintenance if you are leasing it. And, if you are "fortunate" like me to get a second faulty tranny, a full money back is guaranteed!!!
11-18-06, 07:17 PM
#34
Congrats Twister. I missed this thread a few days ago, and just read it start to finish now. I think you made the right decision. I think most people on the 3GS forum are a little disappointed that Lexus didn't drop the 3.5 in the GS from the beginning. Now it seems like they really got it right. Sure, the GS rides a little stiffer than the ES, but it's still a Lexus, so the ride really isn't all that stiff. If there's any question about the relative softness of the ride, just look at all the guys who are driving the car from the dealership to the suspension shop for coilovers and a drop. Enjoy the car.
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11-18-06, 07:39 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks e-man! Yes, that is something I still can't understand when people put $50k into the car, and than drop it 2" and put 20" wheels with rubber band tires just for show?!?!? I'm actually happy that GS350 comes with 225/50-17, not the same as 55 profile on ES350, but still good enough. I was contemplating on getting G-Spider 18", but those come with 40 profile tires. I think those stock GS tires is the best compromise for performance and relatively soft ride. Will keep it for now!!!
11-19-06, 04:37 PM
#36
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Thanks e-man! Yes, that is something I still can't understand when people put $50k into the car, and than drop it 2" and put 20" wheels with rubber band tires just for show?!?!? I'm actually happy that GS350 comes with 225/50-17, not the same as 55 profile on ES350, but still good enough. I was contemplating on getting G-Spider 18", but those come with 40 profile tires. I think those stock GS tires is the best compromise for performance and relatively soft ride. Will keep it for now!!!
11-19-06, 10:07 PM
#37
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bizzaro bro.... keep us posted on the deal you get on the new GS350. I am driving a GS loaner right now while my ES is in for 5k service. I will start a new thread on my comments about the GS.
11-22-06, 07:00 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Just came home with '07 GS350 AWD. Don't know what else to say It took 3 days for all the paperwork to get from Corporate Lexus office to my dealership (Ray Catena). I'm not 100% sure how this buy-back works, but I think you are getting only your money back paid for the car and not taxes and fees. In my case since I chose to get another Lexus (GS model), they just charged me taxes on a difference between the price of two cars. Now, speaking of the deal/price, it was really hard to refuse I was speachless when they offered me an invoice price for '07 model which just been released a few month ago, and when a final deal ended up being almost $700 below invoice - that was not a brainer. Again, this is not off-the-street-customer price, but rather for "pain-and-suffering" kind of a deal. Its really amazing and hard to believe, but this kind of a treatment is only possible from Lexus and them trying to keep their customers happy, at least in my case!!! I got the same config as my ES350 PP+, no NAV or ML. The radio in GS is of much higher quality than a basic ES, it actually comes with a full touch screen like in NAV version. I also got the same Silver color and Black interior as I had in ES, and I felt very comfortable with the same environment. So, this is the end of ES chapter for me and the start of GS page. Like I mentioned before, I feel more at home here in ES forum so expect to continue seeing more of my posts in here. I will also try to keep TSIB sticky updated. At the end, this ES-story turned out to be a curse and a blessing 
It took 3 days for all the paperwork to get from Corporate Lexus office to my dealership (Ray Catena). I'm not 100% sure how this buy-back works, but I think you are getting only your money back paid for the car and not taxes and fees. In my case since I chose to get another Lexus (GS model), they just charged me taxes on a difference between the price of two cars. Now, speaking of the deal/price, it was really hard to refuse I was speachless when they offered me an invoice price for '07 model which just been released a few month ago, and when a final deal ended up being almost $700 below invoice - that was not a brainer. Again, this is not off-the-street-customer price, but rather for "pain-and-suffering" kind of a deal. Its really amazing and hard to believe, but this kind of a treatment is only possible from Lexus and them trying to keep their customers happy, at least in my case!!! I got the same config as my ES350 PP+, no NAV or ML. The radio in GS is of much higher quality than a basic ES, it actually comes with a full touch screen like in NAV version. I also got the same Silver color and Black interior as I had in ES, and I felt very comfortable with the same environment. So, this is the end of ES chapter for me and the start of GS page. Like I mentioned before, I feel more at home here in ES forum so expect to continue seeing more of my posts in here. I will also try to keep TSIB sticky updated. At the end, this ES-story turned out to be a curse and a blessing
11-23-06, 05:08 PM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks! Not sure if any pics are necessary. Its a stock car, I'm not planning to lower it, and there will not be any tinting down (at least not before the spring time). So, its just a regular GS350.
11-23-06, 05:11 PM
#41
You know the saying, ****** happens. I am happy to hear Lexus tried to make the best of the situation and kept their customer happy. Congrats on your new ride. Please keep us updated on your experience.
11-23-06, 05:31 PM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
To be honest, I don't want to rub people the wrong way with my GS350 driving experience in a forum where so many ES350 problems are being discussed. If you have any specific questions, I will be happy to answer. Just want to mention one thing, even if you are happy with your ES350 ride, stay away from test driving GS350 because you will not look at your ES the same again. Just my humble opinion
11-23-06, 07:43 PM
#43
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To be honest, I don't want to rub people the wrong way with my GS350 driving experience in a forum where so many ES350 problems are being discussed. If you have any specific questions, I will be happy to answer. Just want to mention one thing, even if you are happy with your ES350 ride, stay away from test driving GS350 because you will not look at your ES the same again. Just my humble opinion
I had a loaner gs350 for a few days and couldn't wait to return the loaner. A couple observations: my es350 with the ultra package has the really cool panoramic roof and the extra soft leather that you can't get with any gs350; the ride on the es350 is much smoother and quieter than the gs350; the gs350 loaner had a lot of rattles in the dash; the es350 is much more spacious feeling both in the front and rear seats; and the instrumentation interface seemed a lot cleaner and elegant than the gs350.
The gs350 definitely handles much better than the es350....but I didn't buy the es350 to handle like a sports car....the es350 was purchased to be quiet and comfortable. If I wanted to upgrade my es350...I would look to purchase the ls460
11-23-06, 08:27 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Don't know where they find these crappy loaners, either GS or ES Let me re-assure you, no rattles or grinding or any noises in GS. True, UL leather probably softer, I take your word for it since I had PP+ ES350. Therefore, it wasn't a big difference for me in terms of the same leather quality and lack of panoramic sunroof. Also, front seats in GS are more snugglier (like a sport bucket kind of seats). In ES I was almost sliding side-to-side during the turns. I would describe ES more of a floaty rather than smoother, and you will "feel" more road with GS. Less space, agree absolutely. We are talking about FWD versus AWD/RWD which cuts into the floor room and trunk space. One thing for sure, GS350 handles like a hi-tech sports luxury car. Coming from ES350 without NAV/ML, GS350 stock premium stereo pretty damn good and you get a full NAV-like touch LCD screen with all the controls like you get with NAV/ML. BTW, while driving today I was listening to the same CDR in GS at half the volume as I did in ES (due to less road noise, and higher audio power and SNR). Also, I do agree that instrumentation in ES is more elegant, in comparison to a "sporty" look in GS.
Regarding waiting for a fix of ES, what makes you think there will be a fix for '07 models rather than re-design/fix for '08 to take care of this first year run problems?
Let me re-assure you, no rattles or grinding or any noises in GS. True, UL leather probably softer, I take your word for it since I had PP+ ES350. Therefore, it wasn't a big difference for me in terms of the same leather quality and lack of panoramic sunroof. Also, front seats in GS are more snugglier (like a sport bucket kind of seats). In ES I was almost sliding side-to-side during the turns. I would describe ES more of a floaty rather than smoother, and you will "feel" more road with GS. Less space, agree absolutely. We are talking about FWD versus AWD/RWD which cuts into the floor room and trunk space. One thing for sure, GS350 handles like a hi-tech sports luxury car. Coming from ES350 without NAV/ML, GS350 stock premium stereo pretty damn good and you get a full NAV-like touch LCD screen with all the controls like you get with NAV/ML. BTW, while driving today I was listening to the same CDR in GS at half the volume as I did in ES (due to less road noise, and higher audio power and SNR). Also, I do agree that instrumentation in ES is more elegant, in comparison to a "sporty" look in GS.Regarding waiting for a fix of ES, what makes you think there will be a fix for '07 models rather than re-design/fix for '08 to take care of this first year run problems?
11-23-06, 10:27 PM
#45
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I'm glad you like your new gs. However, I don't think most es owners would consider a gs an upgrade. Like I said, an upgrade from the es would be the new ls.
BTW, my gs350 loaner only had 700 miles on it. My gs loaner didn't have nav or ML like my es, and I thought the interface with the information screen wasn't well designed. For example, I couldn't easily change the temperature without going through the screen menu. Maybe it was the way my gs loaner was configured...but it is a common complaint on the gs board.
Last edited by 2007es350; 11-23-06 at 10:32 PM.