twister

I'm going crazy in here. As some of you know, I have 06/06 build ES350 which developed tranny problem probably after a month or more since I got in at the end of July. I might of had it from the beginning, but it was so unnoticeable that I only felt it as the problem became more sever. Of course, the problem I'm talking about is that famous cold start 3rd/4th gear flair. And, it was really bad, tach spikes up by 2,000 rpms with engine revving up and car feeling like going in neutral for a second. I took the car to my dealership, they tested it and confirmed the problem. The Lexus engineer from West Coast flew over for that "special" ocasion. I was told that TSIB will not resolve it and was offered a new tranny replacement. I got that done, and was also given an extended 100k platinum warranty. Well, a week later the problem came back with a new tranny. In addition, I also noticed a very sluggish shifting with it, not as smooth as it was with my original one. I took it back to my dealership, and they confirmed the same problem again with a new replaced tranny. My efing luck, ah? They even had Lexus engineer again double checking it and he confirmed and documented everything. During all this hassle with my car at the dealership, I had a chance to drive IS250AWD, RX350, another ES350, and recently GS350AWD as loaners.

So now, I faced with a dilemma and a decision to make. The choice is to get a new replacement ES350 or move up to GS350. Big step up to GS350 in terms of a price, and I haven't seen numbers they planning to offer me, but they are planning to treat it as a special case, whatever that mean.

When I first started looking for a new car, I narrowed down my budget and looked for cars within it, such as Acura TL, Infiniti G35 sedan, and Lexus ES350. I felt in love with ES350 ride, luxury, performance, and the incredible value of the car. It was not a brainer, so I got it. Now, I'm tearing apart inside because I want to give ES350 another chance, but at the same time I LOST EVERY CONFIDENCE in it and no longer enjoying driving this car after two strikes against it with a tranny problem. I feel like its a 50/50 chance, and also worry that if I do have a problem, it will take at least a month for it to show up (right when the winter with our East Coast snow will knock on the door). GS350 can't be really compared to this car, its in a totally different class, and I never looked at it before as an option because I felt it was out of my reach. Personally, I'm not too crazy about the hatchback shape of it, but this is one hell of a performance car and AWD. You will not get a soft ride, or cushy leather seats, but driving this car gives me an adrenaline rush when you hit the gas pedal, go to 60, and than easily take a corner without even hitting a break pedal because car grips to the road. I even called my insurance, and they told me the cost by switching to GS will be only $30 more with the same coverage.

I'm totally torn inside, and was hoping that my CL "family" can give me their opinion about it, from a perspective of my situation. Anybody?

MD350

You know the saying "3 strikes and you are out". You have two strikes, you are not out yet. So, I would still stick with Lexus. I am a previous Acura TL owner and I loved that car. But, the ES is head over heals on the TL. However, I have driven the new 2007 TL Type S model, and it is a very sporty machine for about $10K less than a GS 350.

There are great ES 350's out there. My 7/06 build has never flared once. 5K miles on it. As to picking the GS over the ES, that is going to be no one's decision but your own. Everyone is going to have their own opinion, but YOU are the one who will be driving it every day.

If you pick a new ES, let the dealership allow you to drive it home for a day or two before you sign the paperwork. Make sure that tranny is 100% before you sign.

twister

Of course, I do want to stay with Lexus. That is why I splitting my hair over getting another new ES350 or moving up to GS350. I also thought about taking new ES350 for a day or two of driving. But, I'm afraid that problem might only show up in a week or a month. And, this will be in a back of my mind constantly.

Just out of curiousity, why did you switch from TL without going into another 10-page discussion we had here before of ES vs TL? What I mean, did you get tired of a stiffer sportier ride after awhlie and just wanted soft luxury? See, if I would be in my 40th or 50th, I would have it as a higher priority. But, since I'm 32, I don't know if I should really make it as a priority?

I'm also starting to think more that part of a decision will be based on how good of an offer they can give me on GS350AWD. I'm really on a 50/50 here between two cars, kind of stuck now

MD350

I am 35, and I do admit the one thing I do miss on my TL is the handling. The tranny also shifted quickly and crisply. But, the ES beats the TL in so many other areas. I also needed a larger car because I have a 3 and 5 year old and it is much easier to place two child seats in the ES vs the TL.

Once Lexus put a 272 hp engine in the ES, it got my attention. The GS might be a very good balance between the ES and TL, but I do need the extra interior space the ES gives due to family reasons. I also don't miss the butt bruising ride.

Before you make your decision, go drive the 07 Tl and 07 G35. That way, you WILL KNOW FOR SURE you made the right decision no matter what you do.

NGG

Twister;
Your situation is very similar to the one I had. The result of my negative experience was identical to yours..LOST CONFIDENCE IN THE ES. The only solution for me that would restore confidence in my ride was to replace my ES.

Because I lost confidence in the 07 ES and did not want to wait for the 08 (hopefully all bugs fixed) I considered other Lexus models. While attractive the GS is too big and beyond my budget. I opted for an 08 IS 350 because of its power, performance and appearance. Yes, there are some luxury trade offs, but directionally it met my needs. Another key factor in my choice was it is in its second build year..hopefully all first year bugs remedied. Also as my ES only had about 1150 miles on it, my very supportive dealer gave me a very attractive deal...could not be more satisfied. Only downside is the IS is special order so delivery is not until January.

In summary, you have to be happy and confident with your ride and it should meet you pre-purchase expectations. Anything less will only continue to cause uneccessary and unwanted anguish. Hope this helps.
NGG

ES350Bob

Twister,

There really are cars out there that when taken home behave just like the demonstrators you drove at the dealer and which you do not need to give another thought about until it's first regularly scheduled service.

Second car, or technically second transmission, should provide you with all the info you need to make up your mind what to do, certainly as regards another ES350.

terryes

twister,

I personally believe you nailed the cold start (everyone has it) snydrome. If you should decided to go with another es350, you would be es350bob number II ---- complaining, complaining etc etc. GO FOR THE GS!!

ES350Bob

BTW: I suggested to you that you check out the all new 07 G35 as did MD, at least check them out, and any others out there before you make your final decision.

It is going to take Lexus/Toyota a few years to straighten out their act.

ES350Bob

terryes,

No, everybody does not have the cold start flare, nor does everybody have the cold start diesel engine knocking tapping.

Plenty have indicated they do not have either and from driving a cold started demonstrator, I know they make them where the engines lack valves out of adjustment and are completely absent any diesel knocking tapping noise.

e-Mel

Twister, I also went from a TL ('04) to the ES. The TL was very responsive and handled great. Really gripped nicely on tight turns. However, you felt every bump and I got tired of that. It also was prone to numerous rattles which became increasingly annoying. The nav system was very user friendly but at least imho it's database was not as complete as the one in my ES. Unlike Lexus, Acura allows you to program the nav while driving (very useful). On the downside the "OK" button (similar to Lexus' "I Agree" button) was very frustrating because it was greyed out for a long period of time (something like 20 seconds or so) to make sure you read the disclaimer. I also found the driver's seat more comfortable. I enjoy the ES more than I had enjoyed the TL. The best of both worlds would be to combine the ride (and better finish) of the ES with the handling of the TL. Good luck with your decision.

twister

What if there are two different tranny cold start problems? The severe one that is very noticeable, and the other small spike which is hard to detect and could probably be fixed in the future with a reflash?

Regarding new G35, what is a point in checking them out right now? I'm no longer in a position of shopping for a new car and making my comparisons. I did that 4-5 month ago when I was shopping for ES, tested TL and G35 (my friend's). I'm not going to get my money back for ES350, you need 3 strikes for a lemon law to kick in and some "investment" in lawyer to get your money back. My choices are limited to either get another ES350 or move up/down to any other Lexus cars. I have been in IS250, and its too small for me and will be tough with a baby seat in the back. RX350 will not be too far from our Highlander. LS is way out of my reach, and I don't want last year's GS300 with a smaller engine. GS350 would be the only choice. Of course, it all depends on the deal they will offer me... If that going to fall through, I will have to change my name from "twister" to "ES350Boob"

LexBob2

Does anyone know if the 6sp trans in the GS and IS is the same one that's in the ES? If there's any differences, that might help with your decision.

ES350Bob

Twister,

Correct me if i'm wrong here, but seems to me this trip is the third time you have that car in for the transmission, if so, it qualifies for Lemon law even if they did not work on it all three times you had it in there, jst that you took it there for that purpose qualifies as 1 of 3.

And I would hope the dealer has offered you some form of additional consideration if you are going to have this lemon addressed.

And as far as changing your name, consider that you are on your second transmission and I am also on my second transmission, seems some have overlooked that logic, you'll be going for the 3rd no matter new trans or new vehicle.

And I believe gooch is on his second transmission as well and several others were also on their second transmissions, and one other guy on his second car early on when I got here and i haven't seen him on here since his second car went south and there is another local guy here whose 2nd car was just bought out, and guess what the reason was....transmission hosed up.

lexuslover

i would say go for the GS350, assuming they offer you one at an insane price, which i think they should. if anything, Lexus corp should subsidize whatever loss to you and the dealer to get you a car at invoice or lower.

if that is not going to happen, i would force the dealer to buy the car back at a fair price and re-evaluate the competitors you were looking at earlier. the new G35 is fantastic value and looks much better than the previous gen. i think the interior quality has gone way up, but maybe not quite the same level as Lexus (pretty close though IMO). for under 40k you can get a totally loaded one w/ all the bells and whistles, and their new nav system and HD music are really really good, more advanced than Lexus Gen 5 nav in some ways. the G is also sportier and faster than the ES, if that interests you at all.

good luck w/ your decision. hope it works out for you !!

terryes

Da twister,

glad you have a sense of humor! My neighbor and I (both es350 owners) have been running TOTALLY unsicientific tests this past week. Both cars (06/06 build 5Kmiles and 09/06 build 2Kmiles) exhibited what you and ons inferred. The big question is: after the rpm jump, which GEAR ARE YOU IN??

Don't get me wrong, the es350 is a wonderful automobile, and I am going to keep mine, but if your going to look in your backview mirror as others have done === get the GS. If you opt for a TL or a G35, that would be a severe downgrade. regards and good luck