ES350Bob

When I picked up my newer ES350 I had said I would post on it after a while, here is the preliminary for what it is worth comparing the two so far.

Steering totally lacks problematic veering in newer, handling is better overall as a result, former was better at faster speed, current is good at both lower and speeds approaching 80 mph.

Diesel engine sound present but to far less degree than in former. Loudness of former was knocked back slightly over time/miles and my hope is the same will occur with newer to point I barely hear, or do no even hear it, though it should not be present at all in a new car or any car for that matter. If for any reason it gets worse, it's gone, not going to tolerate that.

Wind noise present though to less degree than former and I attribute this partly due to door alignment in newer being much improved over former which was out solid 1/4 inch, as example. Those following the missing plug discussion: mine are all present, though will at some point in very near future reverse the larger 2 on each side as a test as I believe them to be upside down and adding to any existing level of, or potential for, wind/road noise.

Exterior sound intrusion, much better in newer and very noticeable difference between former and newer, again, partly attribute this to better door alignment.

Suspension better in newer, newer not as "soft" as some like to claim about the suspension in the ES to excuse rougher ride, as a result the ride is smoother and lessor road imperfections are taken lightly unlike former. Those riding in my current have actually asked is this how they are supposed to ride (?) in comparison to riding in former and experiencing it's ride.

Vibration present in newer but limited to, at least currently limited to steering wheel and much milder than former, whereas former allowed vibration in steering, arm rests, floor boards.

Wipers on high rocking car: Former had far more than robust wipers and/or an issue with it's suspension that allowed the wipers to literally rock the car left and right. Newer, while it too has robust wipers, it fortunately lacks the experience of being rocked left and right, no question you know they are on high, but they do not jostle you left and right like former, plus or minus 1/8-1/4 on driver side mirror, arc.

Rattles present in both, newer has A pillar at dash rattle on driver side not present in former, both had/have glass metal combo rattle in back area.

Door alignment: The newer has perfect alignment on passenger side and for all intents and purpose same on driver's side, though off only slightly. The former was out solid 1/4 inch both sides and had a slight adjustment at some point to within an 1/8. On a darker car like my current, when they are in alignment it is very noticeable and so would it be if out. Door alignment seems directly tied to other issues that can be present beyond visual appearance.

Transmission: Former had either severe "learning" issues if you adopt the it's learning claims, aka BS IMO and that of others, or it was plain hosed up, current too soon to really rate though it has had 2 minor and 1 major RPM spike so far in the classic 3 to 4 shift pattern, though the last several days not a one at all. It very slightly whines compared to the former, though shifts smoothly and overall could be said quietly as some whine I believe is normal for most any car.

Odd difference: My current at cold start will initially at times idle higher than former did, near 2,000 RPM right after start then drops down within several seconds and the only time I noticed that in former is when the first start stalled immediately, second start had very high initial start idle. This may be absolutely nothing.

dreyfus

So your newer car is definitely an improvement over your lemonmobile.

Congratulations on finally getting what you paid for.

wanderer99

LOL on the word Lemonmobile

Bob - congrats on finally getting to a point where you seem to be happy. I'm sure you feel 1000% better too with this vehicle.

ES350Bob

dreyfus,

Yes, it is an improvement over former.

Is it what I paid for? Almost, which is better I guess than the former which was not even close. Of course I'd have preferred the elusive no knocking tapping engine, as in zero, nada, zilch, but ever hopeful this one has the metal parts beat each other into submission and get a little quieter like former slightly did. I have my eye on the transmission and time will tell about it and now believe Brio I think it was who posted that all of them have wind noise and many who claim their's doesn't are near stone deaf and don't realize they have it, same for diesel engine sewing machine level sound, deaf and don't hear it and don't realize they have it..j/k on diesel as I know they can make them without that, not so much kidding on wind noise though...LOL

Wayne's .....still early is a good precaution, once bitten with one of these twice shy.

In all seriousness, none of them should have any level of diesel greeting you several times a day and none any added wind noise and the transmissions acting up is a no brainer, shouldn't be.

ES350Bob

Yeah his Lemonmobile is priceless....LOL..

My newer potentially has just the Lemon zest perhaps, but not the whole lemon, let's see if he comes up with something creative for that. <G>

2thfixr

Bob, I congratulate you on the ultimate resolution of your problem but the question remains. Why on earth did you get another ES? The first one obviously had issues and it remains unclear as to whether all of the problems have been addressed in later production models. It's still the same car so why welcome the same potential problems with open arms? I don't mean to rain on your parade and I don't mean to make all of the ES guys feel bad about their purchase (remember, I am an ES owner as well) but I see the writing on the wall and can honestly say that I am unimpressed with the ES that I bought for my mother in law. At the same time, I can say that I am extremely happy with the GS that I bought for myself.

I took my mother in law's car out 2 weeks ago to fill it up and guess what? I heard the dreaded wind noise from the driver's side window. I let it go since I never drive the car and it doesn't bother me. I wanted to see if she would notice it on her own. Sure enough, she mentioned yesterday that it sounds like a window is slightly open. It is clearly there and it wasn't there when we bought the car. I looked at the driver's door and lo and behold, it's off my 1/16-1/8". It makes me wonder what else will pop up. The car only has 800 miles on it and fortunately, there aren't any other issues. At least none that I have noticed.

My GS is FLAWLESS! I have 3800 miles on it and it is rattle free, completely issue free, no wind noise, no flaring, NOTHING AT ALL wrong with it. The doors are aligned perfectly and everything. The ES ride is terrible and the handling is awful. The GS is firmer and a little rougher but the ride is actually better because it's more controlled. These are my first Lexus' and the GS is more than I expected while the ES is tremendous disappointment. The GS is leaps and bounds better than the ES in every way. The throttle response is immediate, the ride is well controlled, the engine is much quieter (better insulation maybe), and there are no "issues".

Bob, I wish you the best of luck on your new ES but I think the design and execution of the car itself is flawed. It will never be perfect. Sorry guys - end of rant.

ES350Bob

watch out 2th or you'll get labled a complainer with anymore more truth about your experiences or observations of the ES...LOL

This one where issues are concerned is light years better than the former though as you know there are problems but at the time it made financial sense not to take a huge loss in trade and I mean huge just as e-man suggested would be the case back when. The dealer offered an amazing deal and I mean amazing and so I went for it.

As a friend said, go for it and if problems arise then take the huge hit financially.

I can suggest some things to help you with MIL wind noise if you want, just PM me or post it here but my sense is the MIL won't be worrying about it in the very near future.

good to hear from you and my mother used one of your two word phrases when she rode in the car for the first time......"You mean this is how they are suposed to ride, I could <pimp slap> those people at Lexus for what you went through with that other one"....LOL..she is 2nd person to ride and say something about stark difference in ride.

Frozen

[QUOTE=2thfixr;2243653]I don't mean to rain on your parade and I don't mean to make all of the ES guys feel bad about their purchase.


Of course you do. Some of us are quite proud of our cars, and won't ever get to the point of snobby sophistication of your self. You win, your car is better. Feel better about yourself now?

ES350Bob

[QUOTE=Frozen;2243764]Frozen, he also owns an ES350 and has his opinion.

If those on here posting their vehicle defects had cars absent those defects there would not be posts such as his or others you see on here for that matter.

In my case, a person having problems with their car would not upset me in the least that I have no issues or not that issue with my own car. And certainly would not have a tirade over my having a great car while clearly observing others do not.

2thfixr

Now I see your point. The dealership offered a relatively pain free solution to your problems, so you took it and will deal with new issues as they arise. Makes perfect sense! I was looking at it like you simply loved the ES so much that you had to have another one despite the issues you were having. In that case, I have my fingers crossed for you.

As far as wind noise, I would love to hear your suggestions. Please post here so everyone can benefit. I tried shimming it and it made things worse. I tried re-seating the moulding and it helped a little but I'm sure it will come back. From what I could see, the moulding is distorted about 2-3" above the front corner where the side view mirror is. I think it's more wind turbulence rather than a leak. The window seals pretty tight against the rubber moulding.

Did you teach her "pimp slap" or did she come up with that on her own?

2007es350

I had my es in for a quick adjustment of my personal settings at 1,000 miles. My dealer gave me a GS as a loaner. The GS was initially fun to drive, but I was glad to give it back at the end of the day. The GS rode a lot rougher and was noisier than my ES. The loaner GS had 5,000 miles on it, and the dash was creaking and rattling. Also, the leather on the GS was not the same supple quality that is on my ULTRA. For me, the GS was not very impressive. Also, the interior of the GS seemed really dated and the instrumentation seemed really behind the rest of the Lexus sedans. The real deal killer of the GS was the cramped cabin with the smaller windows. Finally, I've just gotten spoiled with the luxuries of the ES like the panoramic roof and the supple leather seats. Each their own. But I defnitely wouldn't choose the GS.

BTW, my ES has been flawless too.

2thfixr

I'm truly sorry that you took my post that way. There are trained professionals out there that can help you with your self esteem issues.

If your ES is perfect in every way, I'm very happy for you. My ES with 800 miles on the odometer is not perfect whereas the GS that I purchased on the same day from the same dealership is perfect in every way. I even went so far as to access this forum to make a list of things to look for when purchasing my ES. Despite my best efforts, my ES has issues. I was well aware of the problems that ES350Bob was having and still bought the ES because I had my list in hand thinking I could eliminate potential problems by knowing what to look for. In fact, I would have 2 ES350s right now, one for me and one for my mother in law, if everything went as planned. Originally, I had no intention of buying the GS. The SGM ES that I was going to buy for myself was no longer available so the dealership made me a $200 over invoice deal on the GS and I took it. It's as simple as that and I am VERY VERY glad that I did.

If I must apologize to you because I like my GS over the ES, I'm sorry. Does that make you feel better? I also stated subjective opinions regarding ride, noise isolation, power, and overall quality. If the facts stated, comparisons to other vehicles and subjective opinions were offensive to you, I suggest that you refrain from reading public forums dedicated to discussions pertaining to the ES350.

2007es350

After reading your latest post, I'm sorry for you too! What does your post say about your own self esteem?

2thfixr

I definitely agree about the instrumentation. I prefer the look of the ES cluster over the separated gauges on the GS. The separated gauges on the GS look similar to the arrangement in the prev generation ES. Also, the display showing range, mpg, and temp is much better on the ES compared to the dot matrix type of display on the GS. I also don't care for the temp /clock display on the GS that is above the navi screen nor do I care for the fact that the current HVAC temp setting is not displayed at all times like in the ES. You are 110% correct on that point.

The smaller windows and cramped cabin is definitely a factor. Everybody that has ridden in my GS has made a comment about the interior size. The ES definitely has much more headroom. That being said, I have no problems fitting my 6' frame into the car but if I were even 1/2" taller, I would not be driving the GS.

As far as rattles, I may be the exception rather than the rule, but there are none on my car. As far as supple leather, my GS has the perforated supple leather that comes with the ML package and it feels the same as the leather in my ES.

Also, the GS is definitely rougher as far as small irregularities. The ES does a much better job at smoothing out the road BUT the GS is smoother in a much more controlled manner compared to the floaty ride in the ES. It's kind of difficult to describe in words but it's very obvious to me when I go to fill up or wash the ES. Noisier? You must be referring to the GS300 because my GS350 is significantly quieter on acceleration than my ES. There is no comparison between the two, the difference is significant.

Regarding my self esteem, nothing I stated is meant to impress anyone or make anyone feel inferior. Facts were stated, a comparison was made, subjective impressions were given, draw your own conclusions and if you feel that I made statements to intentionally impress you or speak lightly of ES owners (myself included BTW), so be it. I can't change your opinion of me nor do I care to. Think what you want because I'm Stuart Smalley. I'm smart enough, I'm good enough, and gosh darn it, people like me! (For those of you that don't know, it's a quote from a SNL character.)

I drive my GS more than any car I have ever owned or currently own because I am 110% satisfied with it and enjoy every minute I spend driving it. 3800 miles in 5 weeks and counting. It is the perfect car. Let me rephrase that. It may not be the perfect car for everyone but it is the perfect car for me. That's not to say that the ES is a bad car. Not by any means, it WAS my first choice. It simply has common issues that seem to be affecting a lot of people. Likewise, the GS may have common issues as well, I just don't have them. My MIL happens to love her ES but she would love it a lot more if it didn't have wind noise coming from the driver's side window. I would love it more if that was the only problem I ever had to deal with. I have my fingers crossed for all of us.

2007es350

Your leather in your ES (with premium package) is not semi-analine like in my ES with the ultra package. The GS loaner I drove does not have the upgraded leather. The ES with ultra package is definitely a LOT softer.


My loaner was the GS350, and it was significantly louder with road noise. The engine noise was about the same.


Please re-read my prior post and the post where you attack another member about getting professional help for his/her self esteem. Are you just presenting the "facts" or are you just being mean-spirited? If you don't care about what others think, then just let it go and move on. However, I must say that the way you self-identify with Stuart Smalley is very amusing and says a lot.