omr

Both have their pros and cons, but what about reliability?

MD350

In my opinion, both are too new to rate.

sdbrandon

Just from the issues on this board I would say the GS is the most reliable.

wanderer99

2thfixr owns both of these 2007 model vehicles, but I think his GS350 isn't AWD. Twister used to own the ES350, but now owns the GS350 AWD. I'm sure both will provide comments for you soon

LexBob2

I agree. Too early to tell. There might be more reliability information using the history of the GS300 AWD, but the ES350 is an all new design.

twister

Well, right of the back, both are completely different cars designed for a different type of a crowd I will not go into details, and I'm sure you already have or will be test driving both. The difference is obvious, one is a soft luxurious drive while the other one is a perfect blend of luxury and performance. Hmm, as you can see I'm a little bias While choosing either one, make sure to take multiple test drives. First ride is always overwhelming and might not give you the best judgement.

Regarding reliability, ES350 is a brand new model and I'm sure you read enough about some of the major problems which a number of people have experienced in this forum. I ended up with GS not because of a trade in, but rather of a buyback of my lemon ES350 (two replaced trannies, both with the same problem). Some got lucky and ended up with a perfect car, others did not. Even right now its a gamble when you're ordering a new ES350, you never know what you are going to get. With GS350, its a second year model. GS300 has been around for more than a year, and the only major consistent problem found with this car was related to rattles. GS350 just introduced 3.5L 303hp engine from IS350 while everything else stayed the same, except for rattles - those are gone! (... edit: a few people mentioned they still have it in GS350?). You can read more about this in GS forum. I actually mentioned this before, take a note how most of the discussions in there are about modding your car, while here is about tranny flares and wind noise

Again, just in my humble opinion, if you can afford a more expensive GS, the decision is really up to how you like the ride quality of either GS vs ES. If you absolutely hate GS ride, than a real decision will be in taking a gamble with ES or looking into another car, perhaps like M35.

Good luck with your decision and keep us updated!!!

omr

WTF? Lexus was the last reliable car manufacturer left. What the hell am I supposed to do now?

I was really looking forward to the cushiness of the ES, and the GS cabin is too tight. But now I may have to put more money and get the GS just for reliability. Is there any way to tell if I'm getting a good or bad ES before I buy?

LexFather

Both are rated recommended buys by COnsumer reports. Both are highest in quality by JD Power. Both are built in plants that are award winning.

Still, there is a difference in build quality between a GS and ES and it is more about the engineering base. The GS is the base and the IS spawed off it. The Camry is the base and the ES spawned off it.

There is simply a difference in build quality in a car that STARTS at 45k compared to one the STOPS at 45k. This is for most ALL cars, not just Lexus

wanderer99

1sicklex - so what you're saying is that if the car is purposely designed for that role (GS) and isn't doing the whole platform sharing thing, then it will be a better build?

Makes sense I guess due to the potentially higher quality of the design to begin with. The GS would be a $45K platform targetted design, whereas the Camry is about a $20K platform design. Hadn't really thought about this before.

LexFather

Yes. Now I love the ES, my first Lexus is an ES. My first SUV was a RX. In comparison to my GS, the GS is just built better, and it SHOULD be, looking at the cost point.

Audi used to share platforms with the Passat and A6 until this model. The A6 no longer shares with the more common Passat.

Platform sharing is about cutting costs and being flexible. I am not saying its is a bad thing at all, clearly it is a very good thing, Nissan/Infiniti proves this with their FM platform. The M35/45 actually is based off this platform, which is 350Z based but it is extra reinforced.

I had time to sit and play in the IS/GS/ES/LS this Sunday at a meet in Orlando I drove to from Atlanta. The GS is well built but compared to the LS, the LS reminds me of the tank like S class of 2 generations ago. As soon as I held that door, you could FEEL this car was built to be over engineered.

The ES is also very well built but you can tell and feel the shortcuts to meet the price point. The IS, IMO is better built but has more interior short cuts, the plastic aluminum is just not typical Lexus for example.