onsknht

I got a call today from the same dealer I mentioned earlier... He said, if I didn't claim my valve body soon, they needed to re-stock it because there is a HUGE shortage of them.

I pressed a little more, telling him that I was concerned about the volume of cars they deal with and if there is such a shortage, why have they never replaced one? At least that's what the "Service Director" told me... This guy said, "Oh we've replaced about 10 of them and nobody has come back yet." I pressed further, "Yeah, well Dan said less than 3 weeks ago there have been none replaced." This guy said, "We've just done these 10 in the past few weeks."

Who to believe???

I made an appointment for this Friday... I reasoned that I need to give them an opportunity to make it right, under the CONDITION that I was going to raise holy hell if there was so much as a grease smudge I don't like on the car when I pick it up.

A prior experience.

I bought a new Sequoia a few years back and the A/C was goofing up... They had a TSB to replace some piping that included something like 40hrs of labor to remove and replace the interior to get to the rear condensor or whatever. When I got the truck back, every interior piece they touched was scratched, gouged or mutilated in some manner... This WAS a new truck when I brought it in and the dealer claimed the marks were already there. To add insult to injury, the quiet ride went to deafening because none of the interior fit tightly anymore so it rattled. I've had to live with this damage since!!! If I didn't care about this type of BS, I would buy used vehicles!!!

BTW - the A/C then quit completely on a day it was like 100 degrees about 2 weeks later ---->>> So they had to do it all over again!

So the long answer to a short question.

I'm sick and tired of buying new cars only to have bolts rounded off, interior panels squeak and engine components go back together hodge podge (broken wire retainers, scratches, gouges, etc.) within the first year of service.

I'm going to let Toyota take a whack at this... They've got three chances to get it right before I leave them altogether after 15 years and 7 new vehicles.

BillP

I consider the flare more than an annoyance. If it's not repaired what's the long term effect of reliability of the tranny. Now that the weather is cooling shift flare on my car occurs the first 3-4 shift every time my car sits for more that a few hours. If I'm light on the throttle its a couple hundred rpm and not really noticeable. If I have to mildly accelerate it can by 5-600 rpm. Last Saturday it felt like the car slipped into neutral for a moment. This was at less than half throttle just briskly accelearating into traffic.

onsknht

Thought this may be of some interest to ya'll...

My response to the Service Director's initial reply where he said there's a TSB and he ordered parts after viewing my videos.

Hi Dan,

Yes... Both phone numbers are correct. I appreciate your quick reply, but it's a little disconcerning... First the TSB forwarded is a PDI sheet for a 2004 Solara, I have a 2007 SE - V6.

Next, I think I'm aware of the TSB and related Lexus TSIB for "shift flare" where the valve body is replaced. However I have experience through another owner, who insists not to have this TSB as it didn't solve the problem and may have made matters worse.

It is odd to me that it only occurs on initial startup... The trans otherwise is flawless and works very well, a little whiny but nice. If I let the car run for a few minutes before driving the problem does not happen.

A few questions I have.

1. How many other 2007 V6 owners have brought their vehicles in for this problem?

2. Was the repair successful?

3. What is Toyota doing to later builds to mitigate this issue?

4. What harm is being caused by not repairing at this time?

Thanks Dan for all your help... I thought I'd try and contact you this way before coming in. So far it appears to have saved both of us a lot of time.

Jim

The Service Director's response to the above email is below (note: I think he types with his toes)

Ooppsss I sent the wrong TSB this is the correct one. 1). I have no way of knowing how many cars have the shift flare, 2). ???? don’t know. we that we have not performed the this operation ( by Opcode) yet. 3). In the TSB they show a VIN break, so cars after the VIN break have the updated parts. 4). The flare, if not corrected can cause harsh engagement of the trans, if tat continues for a LONG time it could cause excessive wear on the trans parts, a good indication of excessive wear would be the trans fluid turning dark or even black before the normal change at 30,000 (WS trans fluid ). Remember the internet is filled with lots of information some accurate some not.

Dan

Patric

Well at least they are admitting to potential long term damage if the flare isn't fixed.

Sounds like the ball is in their court.

Pat

tnedator

I had previously watched your videos and I realize it is a 'real' problem, what I was trying to determine is if it was dangerous or interfered with every day driving.

For instance, the moonroof on my Forester hangs when closing. This is a known problem on Foresters. It is a 'real' problem, but it doesn't interfere with my commute to work or pose a safety hazard.

That is the type of differentiating I was shooting for.

2007es350

To me it would be a "real" problem since it seems to shorten the life of your transmission. I'm not interested in replacing my transmission prematurely, so the problem is real to me.

2007es350

On a different note, Lexus Customer Satisfaction representative (Lexus Corporate) has refused to return my call over the past week when I called about my transmission issue. I have called him every other day over the past week and have left a polite message each time asking for a return call. Every time I call, he is either on the phone or "unavailable". When I finally asked to speak to a supervisor, I was asked "Why? The supervisor can't tell you anything more than the notes that I'm telling you now....that there is no pattern of problems with the ES350 transmission and that you should just have the TSIB performed". Now I know from other people's input that this is just NOT true; the TSIB doesn't work. I actually had to state that I want to complain to the supervisor, because the customer service of not returning my call for over a week is not really good customer service.

The lack of customer service from Lexus Corporate is just as bad as the transmission problem itself.

ES350Bob

You may have missed my comments on that subject uring my my former ES350 plight, but you do have to chase and chase them at corporate to get them to do what they volunteer they will do.

onsknht

Nobody hands anything out... I've changed my tone a little thinking about it.

I'll let them "fugg it up" before I start complaining... Otherwise, I don't have a leg to stand on?

I'm still convinced this will come down to a programming issue, but I don't like getting skrewed either.

2007es350

I finally spoke to a different representative at Lexus Corp since my original rep. is hiding from me and avoiding my calls. The "new" rep. tells me that all they can do is perform the TSIB for the valve replacement. I mentioned that this TSIB has not worked for others, so I don't want this performed on my car. The rep. tells me that I have no choice but to accept the Lexus solution. I then tell the "new" rep that I can play this game too and when the TSIB fails, this will the first failed attempt that counts towards the Lemon Law and that I will begin pursuing a "buy back". I explain that I only want my car fixed correctly and that if I wanted to pursue the Lemon Law from the start, I would have already let them perform the TSIB. The "new" rep is surprised and wants to know if I have retained an attorney. After I explain that I am an attorney, the "new" rep tells me that the supervisor will be calling me back.

We will see!

e-man

To the original poster:

Personally, I think the 3 main problems reported by some owners (transmission flare, wind noise and diesel engine noise) are all real problems, but it sounds like only the transmission flare could have long-term adverse effects to the car. The wind noise and the diesel engine tapping are basically annoyances.

It's all a matter of perspective, I guess. I am a car guy. If I buy a new car and it rattles or makes strange noises, it would bother the heck out of me. I bought my 99 GS400 in June, 2005. Does it have rattles? Sure it does. But I also didn't spend $50,000 on it (which is about what a 2nd gen 05 GS430would have cost at the time, assuming there were still a few around). If I buy a new car, it shouldn't be plagued with problems such as these, whether they be real problems that have a detrimental impact on the longevity of the car or are mere annoyances.

It sounds to me like you're concerned with "real" problems, and I respect that. Some other people on this forum (like Bob, for example) are concerned with both "real" problems and annoyances, and I respect that to. It's just a matter of perspective. From my perspective, whether I buy a new Lexus or a new VW, I do not expect to have wind noise or diesel engine noise (unless, of course, it's a new VW Rabbit diesel convertible ).

Best of luck to you with your decision.

e

tnedator

You pretty much nailed it on your post. I have a fairly low expectation when it comes to car quality in general, as virtually all new cars I have been around (owned or that family and friends have owned) have had creaks, rattles, wind noise, broken interior pieces, etc. fairly early in their life spans. A few years back my father bought a Cadillac STS and the **** that controls the heads up display broke the first day, the wood trim was peeling off in a couple weeks. Things like that.

So, am I hoping for better? Yes, and this will be the most I have paid (not so with friends and family) on a car. However, what I am really concerned is about serious mechanical or safety issues. Hence the reasone to try and quantify the problem. It is not to minimize anyone's problem, but to try and see where it will fit within my personal tolerance scale.

Macklin

This is why I am biding my time for now. Why go through the trouble of having the TSIB performed only to have my tranny perform worse as many others have reported?

I'm not happy about this at all for sure. Why can't, or won't, Lexus just tell us what's really going on and give us a fix that works?

Didn't the ES330 have some real tranny issues as well?

ons, please keep us informed of your results.

ES350Bob

Both theoretically and practically- - the above sums up my view.

Though only variation to the above would be I'd prefer it be a diesel MB convertible with top down if I were going to hear wind noise and diesel engine like noise as a supposed normal operating characteristic when driving.

garsarno

My update on our 8/06 build ES350 Ultra - shift flare diagnosed / new valve body per TSIB installed on Tuesday / Service Manager calls - did not solve the flare - new transmission on order - keep the IS250 AWD until middle of next week. The knock noise - fuel injection noise when cold. I told him if that was the case, document the noise as normal fuel injection noise so if the car blow up someday, I can pull the paperwork out and prove the my case of informing them at 1,800 miles. I also told the service manager that when arrival to church (which is just a mile away from our home), friends are asking me what that noise is. I inform them it is a Lexus and it is normal. Went over his head even after the second time I mentioned it to him (maybe this would be a bad comment for potential customers). No noise in this IS250 or the RX350 we had as loaners previously. So - what does this mean? That this 2007 Lexus name plate / dealer customer service is no better than my local Lincoln dealer. I had high hopes too.