tnedator

I know there are numerous other threads regarding the transmission issues, but I haven't seen this part of it addressed.

What I am reading is that in the first couple minutes after a cold start (I read 10 minutes in the TSIB, but have read memebers refer to the first two minutes) that the transmission can flare when shifting from 3rd to 4th gear.

So, what I am trying to establish is if this is something people don't believe should exist on a $35-45k car and that is the biggest part of the issue, or if it is truely a practical and/or safety issue.

With both this and the wind noise, I read things like, "I didn't buy a Lexus to have problems like this" which leads me to wonder how 'practically' bad the problems are, versus the belief they shouldn't exist on a Lexus.

I have no side in this discussion, other than to continue gathering information and decide whether I should run away before taking possession of my wife's ES UL in a few weeks.

ES350Bob

If you have read the wealth of data on here as it is, you have plenty of info already to help you make up your mind. I doubt any input that could be placed here will afford you anything not already accessible to you in other threads that are the result of months worth of contributions by CL members.

tnedator

Since I have spent the last 2 weeks reading those months of posts, and felt it necessary to ask for a clarification, I guess it means I feel clarification is needed.

Based on what I have read in the months worth of posts, this is a problem that doesn't cause real world issues, but that people believe should exist on a Lexus or any other car that you are paying $35k+ for. However, I am trying to determine if that is an accurate assessment or if it really is a practical issue.

This goes further to trying to understand if it is worth taking a risk and assuming that Lexus will either fix it at some point down the road, or accepting the fact the problem is annoying but not serious.

I am not sure why you felt my question wasn't worth answering. Considering how outspoken you have been on the subject, I was hoping that you would be one of the people that could clarify the true nature of the problem, in terms of its effect on day to day driving.

marcinNH

My personal take is that the shift flare issue leans more toward the annoying end of things as opposed to the dangerous. There's an earlier thread that discusses more specific arguments thereof. You should be able to find it by searching. You must remember, though, that the shift flare issue is not the only problem that has been experienced with the ES350 transmission and thus can cause serious concern when noticed by an analytical owner who fears the prospect of total transmission breakdown (as a not-insignificant number have actually had).

Every issue is in some measure subjective and lends itself to the particular qualification of he/she who is observing. I will tell you one man's view of the wind noise issue, however, and I can't speak for anyone else. I have driven in no fewer than 4 other model Lexus vehicles (ES300, ES330, RX300, RX350) and have never heard interior cabin noise like it exists in the ES350. The car is a fine piece of work overall, in my view. Truly... Yet, the interior wind noise is a serious regression from previous ES models. That is as close to objective (in my own mind) as I can be without a decibel meter.

At least the transmission issue is being handled, and seemingly aggressively by Lexus. For that I am thankful and in as much as the transmission goes I have been satisfied with the resolution (albeit I've already spent too much time commuting back and forth to the dealership).

I strongly suggest you take a highway drive in an ES350 (more specifically the one you'll be buying) with the climate control and radio off, being sure to bank gradually right and then left at highway speeds. Check the range of speeds between 45 and 80mph paying careful attention is my advice. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of a quick test drive and be lured into complacency with the reputation the brand has for interior quiet.

If I had not unconsciously presumed, based upon my historical experience with other earlier Lexus vehicles, that the cabin would be very well isolated then I would have done myself a great service prior to purchase by paying closer attention.

Marc

wcbwcb

Thanks for posing the question, tnedator, as it's something I've been wondering about. And thanks also to marcinNH for a very thoughtful response.

If there had been any transmission, wind noise, etc problems in the ES my husband and I test drove, we didn't notice it. After reading one review after another about how great the car is and it's remarkably quiet cabin, we never thought to test that feature. Instead, we were busy checking out the bells and whistles, including putting the ML sound to the test (frankly I thought it was ok but not esp spectacular). We also only had the test car on city roads during fairly heavy rush hour traffic. Again, we assumed a certain level of quality in a Lexus and were more concerned about easy of maneuverability (we did so many u-turns, the car was basically traveling in a circle )

If nothing else, the ES experience so far as taught me two very important car buying lessons: don't assume, test everything, down to the basics; and find a good enthusiast forum!

Jonathann

To answer your question simply - when the transmission flares, my car loses power for about 2-4 seconds. To some this may be a safety issue and to others it may not. When you get on a parkway within the first 5 minutes of a commute and need a little power, it certainly is. Today the flare occurred for a second time about 20 minutes in to driving, but it was so slight that the effect was negligible. Of course this shouldn’t occur with a Lexus, but it shouldn’t occur with a new $14,000 Yaris either.

Macklin

Called to the carpet!

tnedator, I can answer your question and have posted this before. My car does have the flare, but it only happens on the very first shift into fourth when cold. Has only happened maybe a dozen times over 6200 miles. AND the flare happens so quick (less than one second and 4 - 500 rpm) my car does not loose power as Jonathan mentions above.

So bottom line for me is it's a nuisance at this point nothing more. I'm certainly not going to the trouble of demanding my tranny be pulled when that is a crap shoot at this point as we now know thanks to many reports here.

But as 1SickLex has stated many times before...nothing is perfect. As long as nothing changes for the worse I can live with it because the car is damn near perfect otherwise. No wind noise, no deiseling, no nothing except some minor rattles in the dash that present themselves only when it is near freezing, but go away as soon as the heater kicks.

I said this before too....I was not happy with the tranny in my ES300, but that car was damn near perfect otherwise....over almost 10 years. I would have thought after all these years they would have engineered a better beast.

I wonder just how many of the ES350 trannies exhibit this to the extent of mine and the owners don't realize it's happening?

tnedator

Based on what I have heard described over the last several weeks I have been reading posts in here, I suspect that a great many drivers could have this problem and never know it.

I own a Subaru Forester and have been hanging out in a couple of those forums, because I am getting ready to do some performance mods. While reading the forum, I realized that there are a lot more complaints than I had noticed in previous trips to the forum, including some people complaining of transmission flares. I had never noticed those posts before, I guess because I didn't have a problem with my transmission, I just skipped over them, but after reading of all the problems in here, I became curious and checked them out. They describe 300-500 RPM flares, rather than 2000 RPM flares, and I believe when shifting from 2nd to 3rd (4 speed auto), but other wise similar.

Back to the ES. It sounds like since it generally only occurs in the first few minutes on the shift from 3rd to 4th, that many people could drive in such a way that they drive slowly for the first couple minutes after starting and never put their car in a situation where it would flare while cold, and therefore might not even know if they have a card that has a problem.

Anyway, that is one of the things I am trying to figure out. Is this a problem that if you don't know about ahead of time and look for, are you likely to never even realize you have it?

LexBob2

Other sources for perspectives on the ES 350 for those deciding on whether or not to purchase are other user/owner review sites. Edmunds has a good one under Consumer Ratings & Reviews, MSN Auto and Yahoo Autos also have them. They give additional consumer likes, dislikes, pros and cons etc.

2007es350

No matter how easy I drive my car, when it first shifts from 3rd to 4th, it still flares about 500 RPM. For me, it is not necessarily a safety problem. However, it is NOT normal on any car and it is annoying It is like momentarily shifting your car into Neutral while still stepping on the gas. My real concern is the longevity of the transmission especially after warranty. I like my car a lot and there isn't another car within the Lexus lineup that I would have bought. Knowing what I know now, I would have looked into a different brand.

onsknht

It's a real problem.... Need proof? Watch my videos of it.

FWIW - - there's a valve body on the shelf at my dealer with my name on it. I sent the dealer the videos and that's what he wants to do... EVEN THOUGH, he claims no other customers have complained.

I've been too busy the past few weeks to fart around with this issue... One thing is for certain, the dealer will not use my vehicle as a guinnea pig. I think I'm just going to trade up a year in the spring.

Low speed Shift Flare

High speed Shift Flare

ES350Bob

That would pose a new question, in theory or practically: Was I called to a fine carpet like a Isphahan or a storefront Berber or peel and press variety.

2007es350

Ons,

I'm planning on making a video on mine too...if nothing else to document the problem.

Just curious....what makes you think that a newer car wouldn't also have the same shift flare? Are you willing to take such a big hit to trade in a 1 year old car?

Also, are there a substantial number of Camry owners with the same problem on the Camry forum?

LexBob2

Will you be trading out of the Toyota family of cars?

onsknht

If anything, the video will keep the dealer from telling you that they "Could not duplicate." Additionally it would be good to have it as a reference from when the problem was first observed.

I really think they need to put this issue to rest, so I don't think 2008 MY cars will have this same issue... Maybe something else, but not this issue. I have a real big problem with such intrusive work being done on a new car (I'll elaborate in my next response).

As for Camry owners... The 2GR-FE and U660E engine transmission combination in the Camry is identicle to the ES 350 (the reason why I watch this board). Here are a few links.

Transmission Replacement Saga

All the Talk ISN'T Gone

Old but still around (lotsa pages about this one)

Transmission