I want to buy an ES350 but...
#76
Lexus Champion
I don't think it is fair that the GS is implied to somehow rate lower than the ES.
And the rest I wrote speaks for itself. Hope that clarifies.
#77
The ES is quieter, and has a nicer interior with higher quality materials.
#78
Agreed! My ES 350 isn't perfect by any means--it has some mild wind noise (i.e., the interior of my car isn't whisper-quiet at cruising speeds like that of other ES owners here in this forum), has the tranny flare (very sporadic, though), and makes a few creaking noises around the center dash area every now and then. Have these three issues made my ES 350 ownership experience drastically unpleasant? Have any/all of those issues made my car unbearable to drive on a regular basis? No, and no. I view my ES 350 this way--yes, it could be better but at least it isn't a whole lot worse when compared to other makes/models.
You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.
You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.
#79
Strangely enough I've just finished blasting around Socal\LA for the last 4 days in a near new M35 rental. Its a really nice car. Great steering, brakes, transmission and engine with no real wind noise or rattles. That car is very stable at high speeds and gets there pretty quick. Also doesn't vibrate the seats\doors\console much at all
The ES is quieter, and has a nicer interior with higher quality materials.
The ES is quieter, and has a nicer interior with higher quality materials.
I think all the Japanese car companies are sourcing the same leather and plastic raw materials.
#80
Lexus Champion
You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.
Thanks to the "handful" we know how to reseat the window gaskets, every single window gasket and door gasket the car has.
The exact location of all 5 underside rubber plugs for the wind issue you have shared affects your car each time there is a thread on it including sharing it above which could be viewed as restating the obvious over and over again.
We know door misalignment contributes to wind noise and exterior sound intrusion and that they need be addressed and heck no it is not normal they stair step which people actually thought.
We know from video what a trans flare looks like and sounds like.
We can tell an owner how to set up their car so the dealer has no choice but be able to duplicate the flare, the knocking tapping.
A young man has his transmission being seriously addressed and maybe a buyback rather than jacked around some more by dealer or Lexus.
Another gentlemen went in armed with the transmission TSIB when told his flare was normal.
Twister has a brand new GS when the "handful" was even less of a handful and he discovered he has a transmission problem and latyer asked for inout on what he should do.
Another avoided buying an ES completely due to a very rude dealer and ended up very happy in a GS.
And that is the SHORT list of the multitude of fellow members who have been helped on here and the sharing of resolutions rather than just complaining.
What I do not see very often at all, are those who claim to have a car absent all issues encouraging those who do get their butts back to the dealer and get the issue resolved. Instead they simply say their car is fine. Or a "handful" that instead repeatedly claim how great the car is and supposedly how few suffer defects which doesn't help the person with a real issue, where encouraging and supporting that person to demand better from the dealer and Lexus would be helpful to them. Those are the complainers who offer nothing to problem solving, just complain about members posting.
#81
What I do not see very often at all, are those who claim to have a car absent all issues encouraging those who do get their butts back to the dealer and get the issue resolved. Instead they simply say their car is fine. Or a "handful" that instead repeatedly claim how great the car is and supposedly how few suffer defects which doesn't help the person with a real issue, where encouraging and supporting that person to demand better from the dealer and Lexus would be helpful to them. Those are the complainers who offer nothing to problem solving, just complain about members posting.
If you hear over and over time and time again reliability, no issues, etc. you start to believe it and ignore issues under your nose.
I believe all cars have issues in one form or another. However, I also believe most folks do not notice the issues or do not care. If you look at the most common Lexus complaint, it seems to be rattles. Something you hear. However, I bet 90% of the ES350 owners do not even know they have a tranny problem.
Last edited by sdbrandon; 12-20-06 at 02:33 PM.
#82
Lexus Champion
That probably applies in some cases. But don't you think most people who buy or lease cars like these, are perceptive enough to know what's going on with their cars? Maybe not each detail but the big, obvious things, such as whether or not the car is making noises that it shouldn't, or just not running right? On the other hand if these things are not present, they'd know that too?
#83
Lexus Champion
That probably applies in some cases. But don't you think most people who buy or lease cars like these, are perceptive enough to know what's going on with their cars? Maybe not each detail but the big, obvious things, such as whether or not the car is making noises that it shouldn't, or just not running right? On the other hand if these things are not present, they'd know that too?
You have likely seen yourself posts on here by people with engine knocking tapping and even the flare, wind noise even, who do not wish to do anything about it but it is no excuse for them to give others who do wish to, or who are encouraging others who do wish to, an absurd post response.
#84
Lexus Champion
The point I was trying to make was only in reference to sdbrandon's comment below:
"However, I bet 90% of the ES350 owners do not even know they have a tranny problem".
It seemed to imply that everyone has a bad tranny - They just don't know it.
That's why I was referring to the perception thing.
"However, I bet 90% of the ES350 owners do not even know they have a tranny problem".
It seemed to imply that everyone has a bad tranny - They just don't know it.
That's why I was referring to the perception thing.
Last edited by LexBob2; 12-20-06 at 03:52 PM.
#85
You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.
#86
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Sep 2006
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You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.
Are you going to censor what people say on this forum or even suggest that people can't post about their problems because you don't want to hear about it? If you don't want to hear about it, there is only one thing that I can say. Stop READING it and move on to the next thread.
#87
Car enthusiast web sites can be very positive or negative.
Positive in the sense you can learn all about your car and get help on issues that come up.
At the same time, the site can also make you aware of issues you never really knew you had. Due to the possible frustration and depending on your personality, this could affect the overall experience in a negative way.
One thing for sure, car manufacturers are aware of these sites and know that from a consumer standpoint knowledge is power. So hopefully they address any issues more agressively.
Positive in the sense you can learn all about your car and get help on issues that come up.
At the same time, the site can also make you aware of issues you never really knew you had. Due to the possible frustration and depending on your personality, this could affect the overall experience in a negative way.
One thing for sure, car manufacturers are aware of these sites and know that from a consumer standpoint knowledge is power. So hopefully they address any issues more agressively.
#88
You know what really bugs me? It seems that some people have latched on to the phrase coined by 1Sick (I believe), that "it's the same 3-4 people complaining" or, like Toneman said, "it's a handful of people complaining over and over again." I don't have the time, energy or desire to go back and track the posts of all ES350 owners to determine who's complaining and who's not, BUT GUYS, COME ON, IT'S MORE THAN JUST A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPORTING THESE PROBLEMS.
And guess what? Their so-called "complaining" has helped numerous owners address issues with their cars without having to go through the same headaches and hassles that they did. Guys like ES350Bob, Twister, Wanderer, MattsDVD, and Onskt are blazing trails so that new-comers don't have to suffer like they did (and, in some cases, still are).
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And guess what? Their so-called "complaining" has helped numerous owners address issues with their cars without having to go through the same headaches and hassles that they did. Guys like ES350Bob, Twister, Wanderer, MattsDVD, and Onskt are blazing trails so that new-comers don't have to suffer like they did (and, in some cases, still are).
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#90
Pole Position
I look and listen for the illusive flare every morning and afternoon, when the car is cold and it just has yet to occur in my car. I had a Benz 6.9 that had a transmission flare so I know what to look for.
Rattles? Yes, but they have been fixed. Wind noise? No. Road noise? More than I want but better than most of the other cars I have driven in this price class (Benz C class, BMW 3 series, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 4 door, and Chrysler 300)