ES350Bob

Well, hopefully you meant just the first paragraph. I was saying that the GS was wrongfully implied to the author of the thread as having more issues than the ES (due to misinformation) and when you defend the GS the responses you get are from people pissed that you point out what the ES has as issues the GS does not.

I don't think it is fair that the GS is implied to somehow rate lower than the ES.

And the rest I wrote speaks for itself. Hope that clarifies.

wanderer99

Strangely enough I've just finished blasting around Socal\LA for the last 4 days in a near new M35 rental. Its a really nice car. Great steering, brakes, transmission and engine with no real wind noise or rattles. That car is very stable at high speeds and gets there pretty quick. Also doesn't vibrate the seats\doors\console much at all

The ES is quieter, and has a nicer interior with higher quality materials.

toneman

Agreed! My ES 350 isn't perfect by any means--it has some mild wind noise (i.e., the interior of my car isn't whisper-quiet at cruising speeds like that of other ES owners here in this forum), has the tranny flare (very sporadic, though), and makes a few creaking noises around the center dash area every now and then. Have these three issues made my ES 350 ownership experience drastically unpleasant? Have any/all of those issues made my car unbearable to drive on a regular basis? No, and no. I view my ES 350 this way--yes, it could be better but at least it isn't a whole lot worse when compared to other makes/models.

You know what cracks me up? That a handful of the same folks in the ES 350 forum continually bring up the same issues over and over and over again...to the point that they almost sound like a broken record. It's one thing to point out a problem, and even perhaps express your discord over how Lexus hasn't been doing anything about it to your satisfaction...once, or maybe twice. But over and over? You know--an acquaintance of mine offered this bit of sage advice: If you're gonna complain about a problem but not offer a solution to it, don't even bother complaining about it at all since you're not offering anything at all towards resolving the issue.

sdbrandon

What do you mean? I know when people say higher quality it usually is subjective based on preference. I find the interiors of both cars to be the same quality wise. The leather is the same, the materials of the same quality, however, the design is just different.

I think all the Japanese car companies are sourcing the same leather and plastic raw materials.

ES350Bob

Thanks to the "handful" we know how to reseat the window gaskets, every single window gasket and door gasket the car has.

The exact location of all 5 underside rubber plugs for the wind issue you have shared affects your car each time there is a thread on it including sharing it above which could be viewed as restating the obvious over and over again.

We know door misalignment contributes to wind noise and exterior sound intrusion and that they need be addressed and heck no it is not normal they stair step which people actually thought.

We know from video what a trans flare looks like and sounds like.

We can tell an owner how to set up their car so the dealer has no choice but be able to duplicate the flare, the knocking tapping.

A young man has his transmission being seriously addressed and maybe a buyback rather than jacked around some more by dealer or Lexus.

Another gentlemen went in armed with the transmission TSIB when told his flare was normal.

Twister has a brand new GS when the "handful" was even less of a handful and he discovered he has a transmission problem and latyer asked for inout on what he should do.

Another avoided buying an ES completely due to a very rude dealer and ended up very happy in a GS.

And that is the SHORT list of the multitude of fellow members who have been helped on here and the sharing of resolutions rather than just complaining.

What I do not see very often at all, are those who claim to have a car absent all issues encouraging those who do get their butts back to the dealer and get the issue resolved. Instead they simply say their car is fine. Or a "handful" that instead repeatedly claim how great the car is and supposedly how few suffer defects which doesn't help the person with a real issue, where encouraging and supporting that person to demand better from the dealer and Lexus would be helpful to them. Those are the complainers who offer nothing to problem solving, just complain about members posting.

sdbrandon

I agree. Part of the perception of reliability and trouble free driving is exacerbated by folks who really don't care or figure since they are leasing, they have better things to do than go to the dealer.

If you hear over and over time and time again reliability, no issues, etc. you start to believe it and ignore issues under your nose.

I believe all cars have issues in one form or another. However, I also believe most folks do not notice the issues or do not care. If you look at the most common Lexus complaint, it seems to be rattles. Something you hear. However, I bet 90% of the ES350 owners do not even know they have a tranny problem.

LexBob2

That probably applies in some cases. But don't you think most people who buy or lease cars like these, are perceptive enough to know what's going on with their cars? Maybe not each detail but the big, obvious things, such as whether or not the car is making noises that it shouldn't, or just not running right? On the other hand if these things are not present, they'd know that too?

ES350Bob

If they are leasing they do not care to the degree an owner would that's just the way it is because they would not feel stuck with it as an owner would because they know the car is only with them a year or two.

You have likely seen yourself posts on here by people with engine knocking tapping and even the flare, wind noise even, who do not wish to do anything about it but it is no excuse for them to give others who do wish to, or who are encouraging others who do wish to, an absurd post response.

LexBob2

The point I was trying to make was only in reference to sdbrandon's comment below:

"However, I bet 90% of the ES350 owners do not even know they have a tranny problem".

It seemed to imply that everyone has a bad tranny - They just don't know it.

That's why I was referring to the perception thing.

mattvds

I have to disagree with you here, the people on this board have been exteremely helpful to me in dealing with my ES's problems. What I learned on this forum helped me get my car fixed. I'm confident that if i wasn't a CL member (and didn't get help from the people you seem to be complaining about), I would still be stuck with the problems.

2thfixr

You know what cracks me up? People that post things like this and really mean it. You state that your car has the very same issues that people are complaining about but you don't complain about it because it doesn't bother you. Since it doesn't bother you enough to detract from your enjoyment of the car, it's something that everybody should mention once and be done with it? Maybe you are even suggesting that people don't mention it at all because it has been mentioned over and over again. If you look at each and every complaint mentioned, whether it's a new complaint or a complaint that's being re-hashed over and over again, it's either brought up relative to the discussion at hand, brought up by a new member looking for solutions, or brought up by a member that developed a new problem. Likewise, you state that none of the complainers offer solutions so they should simply shut up. Has it occurred to you that if any of the complainers had solutions, they wouldn't be complaining? People complain because they can't get their issues resolved and that's the crux of the problem. It's not that the car is "horrible", it's not that people like complaining, it's simply that these issues are not being corrected so "they" are frustrated. This is the nature of ALL forums out there. Go to any automotive forum and you will see people complaining about their cars, service, or a number of other things. The point is to make people aware of the issues, seek out successful resolutions to their problems, or simply discuss the issue.

Are you going to censor what people say on this forum or even suggest that people can't post about their problems because you don't want to hear about it? If you don't want to hear about it, there is only one thing that I can say. Stop READING it and move on to the next thread.

sdbrandon

Car enthusiast web sites can be very positive or negative.

Positive in the sense you can learn all about your car and get help on issues that come up.

At the same time, the site can also make you aware of issues you never really knew you had. Due to the possible frustration and depending on your personality, this could affect the overall experience in a negative way.

One thing for sure, car manufacturers are aware of these sites and know that from a consumer standpoint knowledge is power. So hopefully they address any issues more agressively.

e-man

You know what really bugs me? It seems that some people have latched on to the phrase coined by 1Sick (I believe), that "it's the same 3-4 people complaining" or, like Toneman said, "it's a handful of people complaining over and over again." I don't have the time, energy or desire to go back and track the posts of all ES350 owners to determine who's complaining and who's not, BUT GUYS, COME ON, IT'S MORE THAN JUST A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPORTING THESE PROBLEMS.

And guess what? Their so-called "complaining" has helped numerous owners address issues with their cars without having to go through the same headaches and hassles that they did. Guys like ES350Bob, Twister, Wanderer, MattsDVD, and Onskt are blazing trails so that new-comers don't have to suffer like they did (and, in some cases, still are).

e

2007es350

I've had the tranny problem for a while now. I finally have a resolution. The corporate buy back process will begin shortly. If you want more details, you can PM me.

psp

I disagree. Are you implying that all ES350's have a transmission problem? If so, I am glad to be in the lucky 10%, and I would say that if it were true that the problem was that widespread that there would be sufficient grounds for a recall. Only time will tell if there is such a problem.

I look and listen for the illusive flare every morning and afternoon, when the car is cold and it just has yet to occur in my car. I had a Benz 6.9 that had a transmission flare so I know what to look for.

Rattles? Yes, but they have been fixed. Wind noise? No. Road noise? More than I want but better than most of the other cars I have driven in this price class (Benz C class, BMW 3 series, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 4 door, and Chrysler 300)