omr

I am concerned with the problems that people on this board say they are having. I have had enough lemons already and I do not need anymore. However I do prefer this car over the GS for a few reasons (actually CR magazine rates the reliability of the new GS much worse than the ES, which they gave a perfect rating to). However, I am concerned that I could end up with a lemon. Is there anything I can do to reduce the likelihood of this? Are the problems really that serious? What should I do?

ES350Bob

The only CR data that I know of on the ES are predictions released last month, the disclaimer of them being predictions is in fine print near the chart or in italics.

If you go to GS forum there is a poll of owners and they do not report the kind of problems the ES has or anywhere near the degree of them. They seem to report rattles as their complaint and those can be fixed. Look for poll done by .....the oneil....on GS forum and review responses to see and then compare to Celibon's poll on here of ES owners.

Hope that helps you.

Kaius88

It could just be luck... and if thats the case, you might have the same luck no matter what car you choose. For the most part, the ES350 is darn nice and people are generally happy with them. You see all the problem posts because forums are basically concentrations of people venting and discussing unusual issues with their products, and may not necessarily represent the general population (as many have mentioned before). The Lexus quality is superb overall. Some people have the tranny, wind noise, squeeking here and there, but there are many variables that cause the problems. I have a 05/06 build ES350, and the one I had before was a 06/06 build ES350. Neither has any problems....... The only minor issue is my wind noise above 60 mph. I can live with that, since my last car was a convertible and it was NOISY. On a scale of 1 to 10 on quality satisfaction on my ES350 UL, I would easily rate 9.5. Very happy with this car....such a pleasure to drive. The 0.5 point I reserve for room to improve. Nothing is perfect.

LexBob2

You might want to check the ES350 owner reviews on MSN Auto, Edmunds Consumer Reviews & Ratings and Yahoo Auto. They will you give a wide range of opinions from people who have purchased or are considering buying one. You'll get pros, cons, likes and dislikes from a good number of people to help you make your decision. Good luck...
BTW, I agree with Twisters assesment. I'd give our 4/06 build date 9.75 on a scale of 1-10 after 7 months and 5,800 miles.

cocopops

iTrader: (1)

give and take, I have the same experience with my 06/06 build. Wind noise above 60 mph which I can stand as I listen to the radio/cd quite loudly anyway that it'd cover the wind noise. Recently, I've heard some creaks on the passenger seat (only when I have someone sitting on it) which I think would be easily solved when I go in for my 5k service in few weeks time. My rating would be a 9.25. I have lower mileage than most people here as the ES350 isn't my daily driver (which I am considering selling next year).

2thfixr

Just curious, if this is the case, why do you frequent this board and what "variables" might you be referring to?

I do feel that this forum represents a small fraction of ES350 owners out there but that is mostly due to the fact that a lot of people simply do not seek internet automobile forums regardless of whether or not they are having problems. My mother in law is a perfect example. She could care less what an internet forum is. My wife is the same way as well. If there isn't an icon related to paying for the items in your cart, she probably isn't interested. If I had to guess, there are probably at least a thousand people out there that don't participate in forums for every person that frequents this board. It boils down to, "How lucky do you feel, Punk?" (per Dirty Harry) Is a probability of 1:1000 acceptable to you?

That being said, the problems posted on this board are being reported with a high enough frequency that coincidence can be ruled out. There are common problems that are popping up despite careful test drives and the best efforts of current owners to reduce the chance of being stuck with a "problem vehicle".

Kaius, I think it's a fair statement to say that there are many happy owners out there but considering the consistency with which problems are being reported, are you doing this person a favor by telling him that everybody posting about problems is whining and most ES350 owners are happy and problem free?

2thfixr

BTW, I do not have any of the 2007 ES350 issues being reported on my 2007 GS350. I don't think luck has anything to do with it.

Kaius88

I frequent this board because its good learning experience and nice to see what people have to say. The variables that affect the quality of your car could be isolated (oops the manufacturer forgot to glue this part) or widespread (bad patch of tranny parts). It could also be that some people are more sensitive to noise than others. All the cars have more or less minor issues.... and can be corrected. For the small number of uncorrectable issues, the dealer has been able to compensate for the most part. Relatively speaking, the ES350 is darn reliable. I think it's fair to say that this car is one of the most reliable in its class and customer satisfaction is still important to Lexus. Getting a car with a bad tranny is plain bad luck, as you play no role in its manufacturing and quality control process. If this forum represents the overall sentiment of the ES350, then a nationwide recall would have happened a long time ago. The ES is still selling strong.

mattvds

Well part of the problem is that most test drives take place in the city, and people are busy testing out the radio etc, so they don't hear the noises during a test drive. Also the cars are normally not cold, since most dealers use the same cars over and over for test drives.

As for "selling strong" I was at a dealership yesterday, seeing how much i could get for my car as a trade in etc, and the dealer told me that the ES is the quietest of all the cars, and that he had never heard of any transmission problems. Which I found odd, because well, the RX 350 has way less wind noise than my ES.

ES350Bob

I think if each of us had a dollar for every member who posted their dealer claimed they had not had any transmission complaints or only 1 we could have a night on the town at a fine restaurant.

I agree with the new car test drive and observations you posted, that makes very good sense for why the more obvious is missed, especially warmer climates where AC is used and they set the blower speed above 4 or 5 plus radio etc.

A test drive is best for an ES350 and from a cold start to try to avoid some of the obvious.

LexBob2

When Twister said "selling strong" he may have been referring to the fact that Lexus will sell around 70,000 ES350's this year.

twister

*Twister* said "selling strong"?!? Another case of mistaken identity with my bizarro bro Kaius88

I went today after work to pickup my registration and a title for GS350 (you gotta love it when you pay cash for the car), and talked to the service manager in there. Can't tell you exact details, but ANY half decent Lexus dealership that tells you "what ES350 tranny problem?" is full of crap. Not a conspiracy theory, this is a real disaster with numerous tranny replacements and Lexus corporate buybacks... Of course, Lexus is on a roll right now with ES350 sales, so why would they do something honest like revealing this to the public?

Sorry, but for anybody who is looking to buy a new ES350 right now, I would recommend waiting until '08 models released.

LexBob2

Oops! Sorry, my bad.

2thfixr

These are the variables that you are talking about? If this is the case, why are we not seeing the same "variables" come up on the GS forum?

If that's the case, the wind noise would be an issue for me in my GS as well.

It appears that this is not the case with the wind noise and transmission issue.

I absolutely agree with you, these issues are more nuissance issues rather than total and complete failures that will leave you stranded on the road (ASFAIK the tranny issue has not led to total failures). The car is reliable in that respect but initial quality is a huge factor for me and this car is not what I would have expected from Lexus. The GS on the other hand has been more than I had expected. Go figure.

Toyota has pretty much done everything short of that. They have issues TSBs, replaced trannys, buybacks, halted their assembly line, and replaced their transmission supplier. I have a friend @ Lexus and know for fact that these tranny replacements and buybacks are real and becoming a huge issue for Lexus. Getting a bad tranny might be bad luck and I play absolutely no role in it's manufacturing and quality control process but Toyota plays a huge role in those factors and that is the issue. I see that Twister and ES350Bob have had satisfactory resolutions to their issues but those were facilitated in part or in whole by their respective dealerships, not by Lexus corp. I don't see how Lexus has stepped up to the plate to resolve these issues or come up with an effective fix for these problems.

Kaius, for the most part, I can appreciate what you are saying. You have a valid point but like I said. Are we giving this thread starter the straight poop when we say that the ES350 is a very reliable car and it's a 9.75 out of 10 and all of the reported problems are nonsense and can be attributed to "variables" and "bad luck". Also, is it appropriate to dismiss the problems that others are having by saying that these forums are places where people congregate to complain about their cars. There are issues with the car.

The original thread starter's post hits home with me. I am passionate about giving this person the straight poop. I joined these forums for the sole purpose of making a pre-purchase decision to buy an ES350. I saw the problems and dismissed them as a combination of bad luck and complaining by people who like to complain. Despite my best efforts, I ended up with a wind noise issue and I am almost certain that a transmission issue will develope that will ultimately lead to me selling this car. I even had the bad door alignment issue that is well documented on this forum. Fluke? I think not, it's more of a pattern. A common manufacturing issue that comes up over and over again. The wind noise is not in my mind either. I spend a lot of time behind the wheel of my GS. 5500 miles in 9 weeks to be exact and I just got home from a 2 hour drive @ 85-100mph. Trust me when I say that I know what wind noise from side view mirrors sounds like. Likewise, trust me when I say that I can hear wind noise in my ES.

e-man

Bob and others:

I just thought of something related to wind noise. Have you guys tried putting your climate control on recirculate? Here's what I'm driving at, and I don't know why I didn't think of this before. Is it possible that the wind noise is caused by air leaving the cabin as opposed to air coming in? I once had a Mustang GT with t-tops that had horrible wind noise. Despite multiple attempts, the dealer could not fix the problem. They suggested (and it really did help) putting the climate control on recirculate while on the highway. It was just a band aid, and I was still pretty disappointed that they couldn't correct the problem, but it made the problem easier to live with.

e