zhivuyatut

I don't think "piston slap" is a good excuse for the sound. After all, excessive piston slap is considered to be an engine defect, and many GM and Ford engines are notorious for it. Eventually it will lead to premature cylinder wear.

To clarify - piston slap is the lateral movement of the piston relative to cylinder wall, in addition to intended in-and-out motion. Piston is made of aluminum alloy and cylinder wall is steel, these are machined to fit best at the engine's working temperature. Aluminum contracts more than steel when cold and the fit is no longer perfect, causing the piston to wobble some from side to side. So, one can say that it is normal to have some piston slap on cold engine.

I understand that some people have a little bit of this and others have a lot.
I am the one with "a little". I drive off in the morning and have slight noise like a distant cricket chirping or a clock rapidly ticking, while I crawl through my neighborhood at 25 mph (especially uphill). Once I'm on the road, the engine is warm, the thermostat wide open, climate control heater kicks in - the noise is gone. Anyone who took a ride or test drove my ES said that it is very quiet.
I am ready now to accept this noise as normal, especially since I've seen this on my Nissan Maxima too - another 3.5L V6 with timing chain. All good sense tells me that cold engine should be given some slack and not pushed hard. My first car had carburated engine and I would always let it sit and idle 3-5 minutes before driving off. We are all spoiled now by start-and-go injected engines and always are in a hurry.

Then, obviously, there are some people who have really bad noise from their engines. Well, if somebody asks you why your Lexus is not quiet, then you really have a problem (rather than just being a paranoid customer) and need to take this to the dealer. Or just ask a friend with Accord/CamryAltima (preferably not a clunker) to compare two cars side by side and have a verdict which one is noisier. Actually, the sound level can be measured, rather than just eyeballed, and there are specs for our cars. I believe it's something like 40dB inside the cabin at idle, and 67 dB cruising at 70 mph. Although the last number is too dependent on tires/road surface. I'm sure appropriate sound meter can be rented from somewhere. Another scientific approach would be to record the sound (any recording MP3 player should suffice) and then analyze the sound-wave and compare it to other cars.

Good luck to all those who are losing their sleep over this issue. I have got over it now.

YotaCarFan

I've got the "piston slap" problem with my 2007 ES350, too. See videos below:

Parked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN0VA5L1b1w
Driving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggZOuJWgBPA

As others have stated, I too noticed that '08 and '09 loaner cars did not have this problem. The Kia Optima my wife had as a loaner recently (because her new Camry Hybrid was in the body shop after the dealer crashed it on the road after doing an oil change) didn't have the problem, either.

I requested that Lexus buy back my car due to this, plus the fact the transmission intermittently thunks/bangs (per the torque converter shudder TSB), the nav system is buggy, xm radio failure, A/C failure due to dealer damage, heater core white dust problem requiring core replacement, various rattles and other electrical gremlins, a gearshift that occasionally sticks between P & R instead of popping into P, etc. But, after the "factory tech" evaluated my car, I got a form letter stating that my concerns are merely "normal operating characteristics". I'm surprised at Lexus' nonchalance regarding customer satisfaction and reputation. When I sent them a letter requesting a buyback, I mentioned I'd bought 10 Toyota/Lexus vehicles during the past 10-15 yrs, my previous car was an 07 Camry v6 that had total transmission failure after 2 months resulting in transmission replacement, and would be willing to buy another *if* they would restore my faith in the company by buying back my current lemon.

Toyota had better realize that accepting a short-term financial loss by buying back a few defective cars will result in greater financial gains overall by customer retention and word of mouth than telling customers their dissatisfaction is unwarranted. From what I've read in various forums, a common customer response to the "it's operating normally" claim is to stop considering Toyota/Lexus for future car purchases. That's sure my intention now.

Elex

Sorry to tell you this, but from my conversations with the dealership folk and the corporate customer service, I think Lexus just doesn't care about losing a few customers... they think that their slick marketing campaign with draw more in than they lose!

I just wish they advertised all these "normal" operating characteristics instead of the "29 sensors to isolate ...blah blah blah" or the "blah blah blah perfection", so that the service people didn't have to waste their time explaining this to customers.

YotaCarFan

Deep voice on TV ad: "The all new 2010 Lexus ES350. Featuring a poised ride with superb sound insulation that nearly isolates the driver from the piston slap and vibration emanating from the engine compartment. Plus, a sophisticated transmission that shifts smoothly without slipping and a highly advanced torque converter that eliminates harsh banging 95% of the time. Drive one."

OT: They need to add a 30th sensor that gets rid of the strong engine vibration felt in the steering wheel and seat when the car idles with the AC on. I simply cannot believe a $40K car shakes like this!

zhivuyatut

Whoa! That sounds harsh!
Now I know for sure that I don't have what people refer to as "diesel sound".

Thanks a lot for all your informative posts, YotaCarFan.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Yeah,my wife's RX sounded just like that when I tried synthetic oil to try and quiet the piston slap.I went back to conventional oil and still have the noise but less loud.
Odd thing is it started this winter.Last year winter I never heard a thing.
Again,I'm happy it's a lease.
My ES doesn't have any noise at all.....for now and that's not a lease.

MD350

Yota, thanks for the videos. Yep, that is the same "normal" sound my car has. On a good note, my wife's new 2010 Highlander with the 2GR-FE engine has no cold engine knock. So, I feel strongly that the issue is fixed and us who own early versions of this engine are stuck with it.

jjdees

Yo, my '08 350 sounds like that. It's more pronounced when cold, but I can still detect it when the car is warmed up. It has gotten worse since new. It has close to 30K on it now. Today, a new weird twist occured, I could hear it through the radio when I started it. It was already warmed up. The sound went away in about a minute and didn't repeat itself. There was no doubt what I was hearing. That was the only time that happened so far. I'm looking for a good Lexus mechanic at an idependent garage and I'll pay him to check it out and write up a report. If Lexus won't give me the time of day afterwards, I'll do what I can to inform the world that Toyota has problems with their flagship that they're ignoring like they did with the Toyota issues.

pestleman0

[QUOTE=YotaCarFan;5125193]I've got the "piston slap" problem with my 2007 ES350, too. See videos below:

Parked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN0VA5L1b1w
Driving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggZOuJWgBPA

I love the no worries operating as designed excuse. I will run the wheels off my car then next will be Nissan. I have lost faith in the company.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I tried 5w30 Redline oil with it's ester base on my RX 350 with the cold weather piston slap noise and found it lessened both the noise volume and time for it to stop.

jjdees

My noise (like a '54 Chevy low on oil) is not a cold weather only issue. It's present at all times. Quieter when the car is warmed up but still there, Winter, Spring, Summer, or Fall. If a heavier oil is required to silence a new Lexus, it's pretty sad. What will we need to silence it when the engine has
70K miles on it, sludge? Will it last that long?

jrey330/04

I suggest selling it.....for all unhappy Lexus owners. Buy a BMW so you can have real problems, maybe Mercedes.....I just think its a shame this Lexus forum has turned into whinning session. I would say 90 % or higher of Lexus owners are very satisfied but it seems the only that post are complaining about mostly pity stuff....yet they more than likely end up purchasing another one and start wheel turning all over again. Just my thoughts I had to get across.

LexBob2

I would suggest selling the car too but for a different reason. If you have concerns now, and it's out of warranty, sell it now before anything major might go wrong. Buy something different that will give you more peace of mind.

MD350

Toyota/Lexus did make some kind of adjustment to the 2GR-FE engine. My wife's new 2010 Highlander continues to be quiet as a mouse. My 07 ES has actually gotten louder since the oil pipe broke. I am just so over it, and the continued burning smell...I have begun the search for a new car.

LexBob2

What cars are you looking at? Anything catch your eye yet?