Tranny Flare Really Solved!!!!
#16
wanderer, I'm curious...how hard do you excelerate through the first 3-4 shift? Like some others have mentioned here, I have learned how to drive the car when cold so it doesn't do it. Granted, I have never experienced more than a 500 rpm flare, has been very intermittent since the first occurence almost 6000 miles ago, and have not felt one at all since Xmas break. But I have not had to get into it before making that first gear change either.
Some information about cold weather too: we've recently had -6c in my area here in BC and I found that if the car is 'hot' then parked for 15 mins that the 3-4 flare happens again as well.
#17
Lexus Champion
Here is a somewhat radical thought.
This trans issue has been going on for nearly a year, will be a in a couple of months.
Why not think in terms of demanding Lexus review all it's models to see if there is not a transmission they have access to that is already proven, even if it's 5 a speed, that easily drops into our ES350 if there is such a thing.
I don't think too many of us bought an ES350 just so we could have a 6 speed transmission, or at least I didn't just so I had a 6 speed, and if it's this new designed 6 speed that is holding it up, why not go find us all a proven 5 speed?
This trans issue has been going on for nearly a year, will be a in a couple of months.
Why not think in terms of demanding Lexus review all it's models to see if there is not a transmission they have access to that is already proven, even if it's 5 a speed, that easily drops into our ES350 if there is such a thing.
I don't think too many of us bought an ES350 just so we could have a 6 speed transmission, or at least I didn't just so I had a 6 speed, and if it's this new designed 6 speed that is holding it up, why not go find us all a proven 5 speed?
#18
Lexus Champion
Exactly!
Well, now that I'm clear on the fact the transaxle is the same as transmission, I have another question. Does this new TSB, which calls for a transaxle and torque converter replacement, involve more work than the previous 'transmission' replacements?
As we know, many folks have reported their new 'transmissions' are still flaring.
Well, now that I'm clear on the fact the transaxle is the same as transmission, I have another question. Does this new TSB, which calls for a transaxle and torque converter replacement, involve more work than the previous 'transmission' replacements?
As we know, many folks have reported their new 'transmissions' are still flaring.
Don't know, I'd be in the land of the lost on that question. My guess is that even if torque converter is additional work it is the transmission itself at fault and converter may be part of the lumped description for our cars of transaxle.
I know who would know: Dave, King, JJ and if not could find out real fast and Phoenix.
If Phoenix gets here first be sure you have eaten at least an hour before reading his response in case he supplies graphics including the gory deer strike photos
#19
I accelerate pretty slowly. My car usually changes gears around 2500rpm and that's pretty 'average' acceleration on my part. I'm able to replicate this 100% by starting car, driving slowly at under ~25km\h for the first few hundred feet, stopping (at the Stop sign!), then pulling out on the main road and accelerating away. That's when it will slip\flare. This morning it flared at 2700rpm and went to 3200rpm before engaging 4th gear.
But I also noticed fewer occurrences since I started letting the car warm up until the fast idle reduced to 1000 rpms.
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Given past history with Lexus TSIB publishing in Canada, we can expect it here 3-4 weeks after the US. This is what the timeline was for the original valve body replacement TSIB.
I'll be calling them Monday to see what they plan to do. They wanted me to drive the vehicle for another 2000kms to see if the replacement trans stopped flaring. They were quite confident this would 'fix' it. It hasn't (flared again every morning\evening) and I've driven more than 2000kms since the trans was replaced. I wonder what their position will be on a second trans replacement, which will potentially be the 3rd trans in my vehicle.
I'll be calling them Monday to see what they plan to do. They wanted me to drive the vehicle for another 2000kms to see if the replacement trans stopped flaring. They were quite confident this would 'fix' it. It hasn't (flared again every morning\evening) and I've driven more than 2000kms since the trans was replaced. I wonder what their position will be on a second trans replacement, which will potentially be the 3rd trans in my vehicle.
#21
#23
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#25
Lexus Champion
I remember Rboyle had posted on his 2nd where he was going to video it to prove it, not sure what came of it though.
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Don't want to repeat dozens of my previous posts but it all depends on integrity of your dealership. After my 2nd tranny in ES350 developed a flare, there were no questions asked. I test drove GS for 2 days, made up my mind, waited about 4 days for Lexus Corporate to get all the paperwork, and drove away happy with my GS350. I said it before, and will repeat it again: ES350 flare was both a curse and a blessing. Driving a loaner for 1 month out of 4 months of ES350 ownership was a curse, and now getting into GS350 is a blessing.
#27
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A few thoughts reading the responses...
The shift slip/flare can be timid or it can be HUGE, it all depends on how you accellerate the car on the initial shift from 3rd to 4th.
Watch my videos... I did a little one and a big one.
It's still unknown whether big flares or little flares will affect overall longevity, maybe one pukes at 50,000 the other at 70,000, only time will tell. FWIW - - If mine only "typically" did it a little bit and I could get it to do a big one even once (1000rpm or more per the TSB), I'd say I qualify.
Try it and see for yourself.
Next, on the replacement TORQUE CONVERTER... I said it before, there's more than likely assembly material (shavings, grindings, tooling sprigs, whatever) inside the transmission causing this problem... The torque converter relies on fluid from the transmission to operate, so the fluid is interchanged and everything is contaminated... Or possible the new fangled "slimline" torque converter has some teething issues, maybe the vanes are shattering and causing debris? Who knows??? What is known, the only way to fix it is a replacement.
Finally, my apologies for any confusion about transmission and transaxle, we should have been using the term transaxle all along, in fact it's easier to type! In essense there's is a transmission and a differential attached to drive axle shafts, but they're combined in one unit, with the exception of the axle shafts... So the replacement just replaces everything because it's a single unit... They probably reuse drive axle shafts, CVTs etc... Hopefully they don't stress the CVT boots into early failure during the job?
In any event... If you elect to get this done, I'd get the biggest warranty you can get thrown into the deal.
Wanderer, sounds like they're going to owe you a new car.
The shift slip/flare can be timid or it can be HUGE, it all depends on how you accellerate the car on the initial shift from 3rd to 4th.
Watch my videos... I did a little one and a big one.
It's still unknown whether big flares or little flares will affect overall longevity, maybe one pukes at 50,000 the other at 70,000, only time will tell. FWIW - - If mine only "typically" did it a little bit and I could get it to do a big one even once (1000rpm or more per the TSB), I'd say I qualify.
Try it and see for yourself.
Next, on the replacement TORQUE CONVERTER... I said it before, there's more than likely assembly material (shavings, grindings, tooling sprigs, whatever) inside the transmission causing this problem... The torque converter relies on fluid from the transmission to operate, so the fluid is interchanged and everything is contaminated... Or possible the new fangled "slimline" torque converter has some teething issues, maybe the vanes are shattering and causing debris? Who knows??? What is known, the only way to fix it is a replacement.
Finally, my apologies for any confusion about transmission and transaxle, we should have been using the term transaxle all along, in fact it's easier to type! In essense there's is a transmission and a differential attached to drive axle shafts, but they're combined in one unit, with the exception of the axle shafts... So the replacement just replaces everything because it's a single unit... They probably reuse drive axle shafts, CVTs etc... Hopefully they don't stress the CVT boots into early failure during the job?
In any event... If you elect to get this done, I'd get the biggest warranty you can get thrown into the deal.
Wanderer, sounds like they're going to owe you a new car.
Last edited by onsknht; 01-20-07 at 06:13 PM.
#28
Lexus Champion
Finally, my apologies for any confusion about transmission and transaxle, we should have been using the term transaxle all along, in fact it's easier to type! In essense there's is a transmission and a drive axle, but they're combined in one unit... So the replacement just replaces everything because it's a single unit... They probably reuse drive axles, CVTs etc... Hopefully they don't stress the CVT boots into early failure?
Ons,
I think I speak for many in saying this. You owe no apology, we are thankful for your skills in recording the transmission flare, both versions, so that all can get a glimpse of what is seen and heard at least inside the car when it happens, and thanks for your other contributions.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Don't want to repeat dozens of my previous posts but it all depends on integrity of your dealership. After my 2nd tranny in ES350 developed a flare, there were no questions asked. I test drove GS for 2 days, made up my mind, waited about 4 days for Lexus Corporate to get all the paperwork, and drove away happy with my GS350. I said it before, and will repeat it again: ES350 flare was both a curse and a blessing. Driving a loaner for 1 month out of 4 months of ES350 ownership was a curse, and now getting into GS350 is a blessing.
you got a gs replacement at no extra cost??!
#30
Thanks onsknht for passing this info along. I have about 2,500 miles on my UL and have only experienced three very small and random flares. I have tried many times replicate it and cannot induce a flare. Regardless, I feel it needs to be addressed and I have been waiting for a real fix to come out and I hope this is it.
As I used to work as a mechanic, I would like to share a couple of other thoughts on previous statements:
- Replacing a transaxle will require disconecting (but not replacing) the half shafts. Any competent mechanic will not damage the CV joints in the process. The transaxle is dropped out from the bottom of the car while on a lift.
- This TSB in terms of procedure and amount of labor involved will be the same as previous transaxle replacements.
- The torque coverter sits on the transaxle mainshaft, between the actual "gearbox" and the engine. It is, mechanically speaking, a very simple device and not very likely to be something that fails. However, it might be redesigned to acheive certain new characteristics. Once the transaxle is out, the torque converter would take about ten minutes to swap out.
- Getting a transaxle from another model is not likely. They are designed to mate to a specific engine and with gearing for a specific type of car. All kinds of external assemblies mount to the outside of the transaxle (starter, motor mounts, electrical components, etc). For example, the GS transaxle might mate to the engine but likely has totally different gearing reflecting the sporty nature of that car and may even have the output connections for the halfshafts in a slighter different position to match the chassis.
- I very definitely factored in the 6 speed as part of my purchasing decision. Additional gears allow for closer spacing between gear ratios which add to the smoothness, performance, and fuel economy of the vehicle (assuming the tranny is working properly ). That is why the LS now has an 8 speed tranny.
Again, I hope this is a real fix and the issue can be put behind us. I would hate to see garsarno's eBay count to get much higher! Even worse would be to have this issue start effecting the reputation and resale value of the ES.
Pete
As I used to work as a mechanic, I would like to share a couple of other thoughts on previous statements:
- Replacing a transaxle will require disconecting (but not replacing) the half shafts. Any competent mechanic will not damage the CV joints in the process. The transaxle is dropped out from the bottom of the car while on a lift.
- This TSB in terms of procedure and amount of labor involved will be the same as previous transaxle replacements.
- The torque coverter sits on the transaxle mainshaft, between the actual "gearbox" and the engine. It is, mechanically speaking, a very simple device and not very likely to be something that fails. However, it might be redesigned to acheive certain new characteristics. Once the transaxle is out, the torque converter would take about ten minutes to swap out.
- Getting a transaxle from another model is not likely. They are designed to mate to a specific engine and with gearing for a specific type of car. All kinds of external assemblies mount to the outside of the transaxle (starter, motor mounts, electrical components, etc). For example, the GS transaxle might mate to the engine but likely has totally different gearing reflecting the sporty nature of that car and may even have the output connections for the halfshafts in a slighter different position to match the chassis.
- I very definitely factored in the 6 speed as part of my purchasing decision. Additional gears allow for closer spacing between gear ratios which add to the smoothness, performance, and fuel economy of the vehicle (assuming the tranny is working properly ). That is why the LS now has an 8 speed tranny.
Again, I hope this is a real fix and the issue can be put behind us. I would hate to see garsarno's eBay count to get much higher! Even worse would be to have this issue start effecting the reputation and resale value of the ES.
Pete