Neo

iTrader: (3)

That is a gross generalization about Lexus. We all have different driving styles and expectations. I have driven my GS300 since 98. I have driven my mom's ES330 many times. I have driven mt BIL's RX300 often too. So I've experienced a sampling of "lux-sport", "family", and "SUV" rides from Lexus. I admit that I've felt the hesitation issues but they were not so bad that I would swear off Lexus.

We have forums for all the models here on CL. From the minority of voices on this topic, either no one is speaking out or it is just not that bad. People can live with it. People who cannot live with it should just agree to not agree with Lexus' philosophy and move on to other makes that fit their needs better. All the car manufacturers have their strengths and weaknesses. As a consumer, you will need to test drive and decide on which manufacturer makes a car that has the most criteria that meets the individual needs.

I love MBs and BMWs. I can't see spending the $ for them at this point in my life. I keep my cars, whereas many rotate cars each year, 2 years, 3 years, ... Lexus meets MY needs and am happy with some of the compromises I have to make. Maybe some ES350 owners should reevaluate your needs and if this car fails your criteria, accept it as a learning experience and move on. With the number of ES350s I see here in SoCal, I have to assume there are plenty of people who are happy with their decision.

widlfiresd

Good points. We forget that just because Lexus makes a fairly good car, they are still not for everyone.

My 97 ES still runs fine. If I were to replace it, I would most likely just get a Camry. I just need reliable four door transportation which is what the ES was back in 97. Not all the gizmos. Now the current Camry is what the ES once was.

If I bought a new ES/GS model I would be disappointed. They are nice cars, but really miss the mark for me. The rattles alone would drive me nuts. I can live with a rattle in a $20k car. But I would get no joy telling my co-workers my $60k car is in the shop again for rattles. I think that is worse they an actual part failing. Kind of embarrasing.

LexBob2

I used to have an '03 Avalon XLS with the 4sp automatic. It was a great transmission. Always seemed to be in the right gear for the situation, and made the most of the performace and mileage of the 3.0 engine. The 6sp in my ES350 is just as good, different, but very smooth. It handles the added hp (the performance is night and day over the Avalon) and the gas mileage is great for this type of car. Obviously it shifts more often with two more speeds, but no complaints after nearly 9 months of driving.

Pheonix

All transmissions with electronically controlled line pressure have a momentary hesitation before shifting. Doesn't matter who makes it. Don't like it, buy a manual.
Valve bodies are completely electronically controlled at this point. There is no mechanical linkage to your foot. The computer has to decide for itself what you're trying to accomplish, then it has to decide the best way to go about it.



Noone would ever wind a lawsuit about that simply because as a driver. You are required to be able to operate your car in a safe manner. By doing so you are aweare of the current traffic conditions, and have taken the appropriate measures to ensure your own saftey & the following of any traffic laws.
If current conditions change & you have no choice but to nail it. You, as a human, ahve the ability to adapt to the fact that it will take the computer XXX amount of time before YYY happens.





On the other side, the mechanical issues... Go for it.

e-man

Neo -- you're just talking about the hesitation issue, right? I mean, if a transmission flares/slips, wouldn't that fail to meet everyone's criteria, regardless of their needs?

e

Neo

iTrader: (3)

I agree that the transmission flare problem is unfortunate. Even though it is a 1st year of a new model, it should not be this bad. It sounds like, however, that Lexus is trying to fix the issue albeit not too successfully yet. I've been reading the ventings of the CL members who are dealing with this and I do sympathize. Don't ask me how I know.

Still, although this thread is about tranny, it is more of a complaint on the how the Lexus tranny, engine, and ECU communicate. Lexus tuned it a certain way and at some instances, they communicate badly. Most of the time, the car drives fine. Some cars seem to have it worse than others.Am I happy about this? No. It would be a criteria on my list when I am making a decision on a new car. I did not (and more than likely will not) buy a 3GS as I am happier with the 2GS. I can say, however, that the tranny shifting style of Lexus was NOT the deciding factor.

No car is perfect. I accept that. I just did not want to see the "bash the Lexus ES350 tranny" feelings (with the flares, I can understand the frustration) turn into "bash the Lexus ES350" turn into "bash Lexus".

dunnojack

Although I've only had a rare little 2-3 gear slip, I'll be very happy when lexus comes up with a true fix sometime within this 5 year model cycle. Replacing one defective transmission for another defective transmission just sounds silly.
I plan on driving this for 20+ years. I wanna reach 1 million miles

ES350Bob

Phoenix,

There are conditions where even being aware will not address potential results of this hesitation such as snow belt areas where there is either snow, ice or black ice. A software fix seems in the pipeline for this reason if Lexus is aware or once they are made aware of this.

Certainly so for the other-mechanical issue of the flare/slip when the RPM spike is transferred to, or in partial to, motion--FWD due to less resistance as a result of even somewhat slippery conditions.

909dude

The problem with Lexus goes far beyond the poor performance of 5 years of ES's with lousy transmissions. The heart of my primary complaint is the dreadful customer service offered by the company. When I bought my first Lexus in 1998, the dealers made sure your needs were met. Now, when I bring my car in for an oil change, it takes a day at the dealer, and the service department won't answer the phone when I called all morning to see if the car was ready. Moreover, Lexus corporate totally ignored me when I asked for their help with my transmission. Four Lexus purchases later (and a total of 12 Toyota Motor Company purchases), I will never buy another one. The saddest part of the story is the company couldn't care less they lost a loyal customer.

widlfiresd

Sorry to hear this. Perhaps you are the victim of the quest for corporate profits and the desire to be #1 in sales. I think it is hard to expand a company and appease all the customers. Once you get so large, one issue like the ES tranny is ampliflied 10 fold due to the number of cars on the road.

PsychDoc

That's why they call it "EMERGENCY" avoidance maneuvers...as in no time to calculate the approach velocity divided by the hypotenuse squared and then divided by pi (to the 45th place, of course).

The dreadful hesitation is a serious safety issue and it's a matter of time before someone sues them or an outfit like "60 Minutes" gets ahold of this.

And as for the moderator's concern that his beloved Lexus marque is being harshly criticized I would hasten to point out that we're taling about a car costing $44k here and not a Ford Fusion.

In a car costing this much I expect that I will get an instant response when I put my foot on the gas. M-B, BMW and Audi seem to be able to figure out how to give that to the driver.

Is it too much to ask the same of Lexus?

909dude

PsychDoc

You can add Infiniti to the list of cars with outstanding transmissions. Test drive an M35 and see for yourself.

LexBob2

I've never at any time felt unsafe driving our car in a wide variety of city, suburban and expressway driving. At certain speeds there is a momentary delay before downshifting, which feels wierd, but it's very brief and I wouldn't consider it dangerous or not safe. Other transmisions may react differently though.

Kaius88

This hesitation goes "grrrrrrrrrr........rrrrrooooooooooooooooomm" right? I dont think it is 3 seconds. It feels long cus you are waiting for it. It is probably about 1 - 1.5 seconds, which is enough to wreck havoc if a split second decision is not executed immediately. This is not only on ES and Camry. My wife's 2005 Highlander has this hesitation too. I figure it's something to get used to. I wonder if the IS and GS have this....wait...i recall my 2006 GS loaner has this too....so it's not a defect.

I think this is probably the biggest complaint i have with the ES350. Other than that i am perfectly happy with mine.

ES350Bob

Psych,

Here is the answer to your original question:

YES, if the Lexus is entered in the racing circuit as:
Rolex 24 @Daytona. <----That transmission did not hesitate, flare or slip, you can bet money on that.

YES, if as is planned Toyota officially enters Nascar as it would look foolish to have the car's transmission repeatedly reported as the cause of losing, or never finishing a race or even for there to be a mention the thing has a slipping, flaring, snorting, coughing, transmission, or shy one that is hesitant.

Me thinks the priorities are skewed, the consumer first, then playtime with the great transmissions.