Lexus at the Philadelphia Auto Show
02-06-07, 11:19 AM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Lexus at the Philadelphia Auto Show
A good buddy and I went to the Philadelphia Auto Show Monday. Since the ES350 WAS at the top of my list for a new vehicle purchase (until reading about the hopefully first year problems – transmission, engine noise, wind noise, etc.), I couldn’t wait to check it out and get his opinion.
Well, as fate would have it, they had THE car that I would want – UL ruby red/cashmere/ML/NAV. We sat in it and were duly impressed. I know there’s a lot of conjecture about whether the interior of the 350 is as good as the 330, but not having seen the latter, all I can say is both of us really liked the ’07 350.
I have been boreaRsing my friend about all the negatives listed on this board, so we go over to the official Lexus counter and ask one of the Lexus Babes about the transmission. She says she hasn’t heard anything bad about it and refers us to a Lexus “corporate type” who happened to be there. My buddy tells him he’s heard about some transmission problems on the ES and I say that I was ready to purchase an ES until I read about the Camry/ES transmission hassles.
The Lexus rep starts out by saying that there have been about 65 buybacks but there’s nothing wrong with the transmission. He goes into the “learning bit” using as an example, suppose every day on the way to work, you go LEFT out of your driveway and drive “conservatively” or “in the same manner” to your destination. Then, on the weekend, you go RIGHT out of your driveway and “gun it.” Well, the transmission gets confused because it isn’t used to you asking it to do that. Then, he asks me what kind of car I drive – I say ’04 Maxima – and he says it operates the same way.
I didn’t want to get into a huge debate with this gentleman at the show and bring up all the other issues -
- just wanted to hear what he had to say about the transmission. This was not the time or place to “grill” him about what, as a NON-OWNER, I have merely read about on a message board. You know he would have shot me down immediately and suggest that I go take a test drive (which I had done back in May.)
Then I asked, “How many ES’s have been sold….70,000 or so?” and he replied that it’s probably more like over 100,000 worldwide. He “closed” by saying that the bottom line is if you are unhappy with the car, “Lexus will take care of you.”
The Lexus Babe, who has been listening intently to the conversation, looks at me and says, “So.....SOLD?” I say, “Well, not yet. Do you have any ‘08 RX’s?” They reply in the affirmative pointing out two that are available for persual so we moved on.
I’m just offering this little story to CL to let you know the “line” Lexus is giving out about the ES350 at the Philadelphia Auto Show this week.
Ohh....and I do not agree that the Maxima transmission “operates the same way.” I can categorically DENY that it operates in the same manner as many of the ES's posted on this board. It also does not operate like my wife’s ‘04 Sienna 330 5-spd Minivan. The Max is much more predictable and suits me just fine. Now, the ride....that’s a whole ‘nother story.
Well, as fate would have it, they had THE car that I would want – UL ruby red/cashmere/ML/NAV. We sat in it and were duly impressed. I know there’s a lot of conjecture about whether the interior of the 350 is as good as the 330, but not having seen the latter, all I can say is both of us really liked the ’07 350.
I have been boreaRsing my friend about all the negatives listed on this board, so we go over to the official Lexus counter and ask one of the Lexus Babes about the transmission. She says she hasn’t heard anything bad about it and refers us to a Lexus “corporate type” who happened to be there. My buddy tells him he’s heard about some transmission problems on the ES and I say that I was ready to purchase an ES until I read about the Camry/ES transmission hassles.
The Lexus rep starts out by saying that there have been about 65 buybacks but there’s nothing wrong with the transmission. He goes into the “learning bit” using as an example, suppose every day on the way to work, you go LEFT out of your driveway and drive “conservatively” or “in the same manner” to your destination. Then, on the weekend, you go RIGHT out of your driveway and “gun it.” Well, the transmission gets confused because it isn’t used to you asking it to do that. Then, he asks me what kind of car I drive – I say ’04 Maxima – and he says it operates the same way.
I didn’t want to get into a huge debate with this gentleman at the show and bring up all the other issues -
- just wanted to hear what he had to say about the transmission. This was not the time or place to “grill” him about what, as a NON-OWNER, I have merely read about on a message board. You know he would have shot me down immediately and suggest that I go take a test drive (which I had done back in May.)Then I asked, “How many ES’s have been sold….70,000 or so?” and he replied that it’s probably more like over 100,000 worldwide. He “closed” by saying that the bottom line is if you are unhappy with the car, “Lexus will take care of you.”
The Lexus Babe, who has been listening intently to the conversation, looks at me and says, “So.....SOLD?” I say, “Well, not yet. Do you have any ‘08 RX’s?” They reply in the affirmative pointing out two that are available for persual so we moved on.
I’m just offering this little story to CL to let you know the “line” Lexus is giving out about the ES350 at the Philadelphia Auto Show this week.
Ohh....and I do not agree that the Maxima transmission “operates the same way.” I can categorically DENY that it operates in the same manner as many of the ES's posted on this board. It also does not operate like my wife’s ‘04 Sienna 330 5-spd Minivan. The Max is much more predictable and suits me just fine. Now, the ride....that’s a whole ‘nother story.
02-06-07, 11:28 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
A good buddy and I went to the Philadelphia Auto Show Monday. Since the ES350 WAS at the top of my list for a new vehicle purchase (until reading about the hopefully first year problems – transmission, engine noise, wind noise, etc.), I couldn’t wait to check it out and get his opinion.
Well, as fate would have it, they had THE car that I would want – UL ruby red/cashmere/ML/NAV. We sat in it and were duly impressed. I know there’s a lot of conjecture about whether the interior of the 350 is as good as the 330, but not having seen the latter, all I can say is both of us really liked the ’07 350.
I have been boreaRsing my friend about all the negatives listed on this board, so we go over to the official Lexus counter and ask one of the Lexus Babes about the transmission. She says she hasn’t heard anything bad about it and refers us to a Lexus “corporate type” who happened to be there. My buddy tells him he’s heard about some transmission problems on the ES and I say that I was ready to purchase an ES until I read about the Camry/ES transmission hassles.
The Lexus rep starts out by saying that there have been about 65 buybacks but there’s nothing wrong with the transmission. He goes into the “learning bit” using as an example, suppose every day on the way to work, you go LEFT out of your driveway and drive “conservatively” or “in the same manner” to your destination. Then, on the weekend, you go RIGHT out of your driveway and “gun it.” Well, the transmission gets confused because it isn’t used to you asking it to do that. Then, he asks me what kind of car I drive – I say ’04 Maxima – and he says it operates the same way.
I didn’t want to get into a huge debate with this gentleman at the show and bring up all the other issues - - just wanted to hear what he had to say about the transmission. This was not the time or place to “grill” him about what, as a NON-OWNER, I have merely read about on a message board. You know he would have shot me down immediately and suggest that I go take a test drive (which I had done back in May.)
Then I asked, “How many ES’s have been sold….70,000 or so?” and he replied that it’s probably more like over 100,000 worldwide. He “closed” by saying that the bottom line is if you are unhappy with the car, “Lexus will take care of you.”
The Lexus Babe, who has been listening intently to the conversation, looks at me and says, “So.....SOLD?” I say, “Well, not yet. Do you have any ‘08 RX’s?” They reply in the affirmative pointing out two that are available for persual so we moved on.
I’m just offering this little story to CL to let you know the “line” Lexus is giving out about the ES350 at the Philadelphia Auto Show this week.
Ohh....and I do not agree that the Maxima transmission “operates the same way.” I can categorically DENY that it operates in the same manner as many of the ES's posted on this board. It also does not operate like my wife’s ‘04 Sienna 330 5-spd Minivan. The Max is much more predictable and suits me just fine. Now, the ride....that’s a whole ‘nother story.
Well, as fate would have it, they had THE car that I would want – UL ruby red/cashmere/ML/NAV. We sat in it and were duly impressed. I know there’s a lot of conjecture about whether the interior of the 350 is as good as the 330, but not having seen the latter, all I can say is both of us really liked the ’07 350.
I have been boreaRsing my friend about all the negatives listed on this board, so we go over to the official Lexus counter and ask one of the Lexus Babes about the transmission. She says she hasn’t heard anything bad about it and refers us to a Lexus “corporate type” who happened to be there. My buddy tells him he’s heard about some transmission problems on the ES and I say that I was ready to purchase an ES until I read about the Camry/ES transmission hassles.
The Lexus rep starts out by saying that there have been about 65 buybacks but there’s nothing wrong with the transmission. He goes into the “learning bit” using as an example, suppose every day on the way to work, you go LEFT out of your driveway and drive “conservatively” or “in the same manner” to your destination. Then, on the weekend, you go RIGHT out of your driveway and “gun it.” Well, the transmission gets confused because it isn’t used to you asking it to do that. Then, he asks me what kind of car I drive – I say ’04 Maxima – and he says it operates the same way.
I didn’t want to get into a huge debate with this gentleman at the show and bring up all the other issues -
- just wanted to hear what he had to say about the transmission. This was not the time or place to “grill” him about what, as a NON-OWNER, I have merely read about on a message board. You know he would have shot me down immediately and suggest that I go take a test drive (which I had done back in May.)Then I asked, “How many ES’s have been sold….70,000 or so?” and he replied that it’s probably more like over 100,000 worldwide. He “closed” by saying that the bottom line is if you are unhappy with the car, “Lexus will take care of you.”
The Lexus Babe, who has been listening intently to the conversation, looks at me and says, “So.....SOLD?” I say, “Well, not yet. Do you have any ‘08 RX’s?” They reply in the affirmative pointing out two that are available for persual so we moved on.
I’m just offering this little story to CL to let you know the “line” Lexus is giving out about the ES350 at the Philadelphia Auto Show this week.
Ohh....and I do not agree that the Maxima transmission “operates the same way.” I can categorically DENY that it operates in the same manner as many of the ES's posted on this board. It also does not operate like my wife’s ‘04 Sienna 330 5-spd Minivan. The Max is much more predictable and suits me just fine. Now, the ride....that’s a whole ‘nother story.
02-06-07, 11:29 AM
#3
Very interesting, and I think it was a very sensible thing for you to ask about, the way you went about it sounds fair. I really like the ES 350's 'overall package' and IMO Ruby Red is fantastic. However it does seem that there is a chance of getting transmission problems, so you have to be careful. Maybe checking the build date?
Also I'm glad to hear that there are not just the Lexus Babes, who are hired for the auto shows only, and real Lexus corporate people there that the interested and informed consumer can approach.
Also I'm glad to hear that there are not just the Lexus Babes, who are hired for the auto shows only, and real Lexus corporate people there that the interested and informed consumer can approach.
02-06-07, 11:59 AM
#4
This must be in their training. There is no way they could all come out with the same exact wording and phrasing. At no time did anyone ever mention Pursuit of Perfection, but those words above... I have heard them, many, many times.
So the $100,000 question is: Is this true? Will Lexus take care of you? I think you could ask anyone here who has an ongoing transmission issue this question.
I liked the buyback numbers he gave you - 65 vehicles. How would he know the exact number just like that? I also like how that same person indicated there is nothing wrong with the transmission. Umm.... a few Lexus TSIB's would suggest otherwise, and our polls here definitely suggest otherwise!
This is what is so great about the internet. People can state things in a Sales environment that are true or false. You'll have no way of knowing what is true because they are trying to make a sale. Maybe the trans is just fine. Maybe there are no issues. It's when you get a group of actual owners of the product together (Club Lexus) and people start discussing their real experiences that you find out the true story.
02-06-07, 12:34 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Wanderer, to read your post, it's a wonder that Lexus can stay in business or get any repeat buyers at all! You're obviously biased in one direction due to your bad experiences - I'm obviously biased in the other due my positive experiences - Somewhere in the middle is the real world. With 70,000+ ES350's sold to date, there's gotta be some good ones on the road with satisfied owners. I don't think I was the only lucky one.
02-06-07, 12:50 PM
#6
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Welcome to the corporate world where numbers like those come across your desk weekly. Those are numbers you want to know. How many buy backs/returns , how many cancelled orders, how many shipped and so on. It's easy to remember when your talking just the Lexus lineup. I would say he gave you an honest/accurate number.
02-06-07, 12:54 PM
#7
Lexbob - I totally agree. I'm definitely at one end - through absolutely no fault of my own - and you are at the other end with no problems. No argument there. I just wish I was at your end!!
So I wonder what really is in the middle....
On repeat business - it will be interesting with the ES for those who have problems. I'm having to look at vehicle replacement right now. I was ready to jump into an RX actually. But that won't be happening now, due to another un-related screwup by my Lexus dealer. I know of other 2007 ES owners who are also actively shopping for new vehicles. Lexus isn't on their lists either.
So I wonder what really is in the middle....
On repeat business - it will be interesting with the ES for those who have problems. I'm having to look at vehicle replacement right now. I was ready to jump into an RX actually. But that won't be happening now, due to another un-related screwup by my Lexus dealer. I know of other 2007 ES owners who are also actively shopping for new vehicles. Lexus isn't on their lists either.
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02-06-07, 01:04 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
LOL...nobody, not even those who state their car is problem free are buying that the guy gave an accurate buyback number. 2007ES350 was told by a Lexus rep there were over 300 buybacks in his state's region alone and he was told that within the last several months.
As to the Babe and the spokesperson, that is what they are hired to do it seems, what else would you really expect of them.
02-06-07, 01:08 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
of course, corporate heads won't give you an ugly picture of toyota
they have cars to sell!!!
But clearly, there's a transmission slip issue. I didn't get the worst of it, but I wouldn't have gambled on it had I known about this beforehand.
You just don't know if your car will turn out to be a dud. There's no peace of mind when buying this car.
Of course, you can probably return a dud after some work: 3 strikes lemon law. Which means you'll have to replace the transmission, then abuse it and get it to flare again, rinse & repeat 2 more times, then call lexus corporate for buyback.
I'm not completely anti-lexus, but after owning a prettymuch bulletproof es300, I'm disappointed with how the 350 turned out.
they have cars to sell!!!
But clearly, there's a transmission slip issue. I didn't get the worst of it, but I wouldn't have gambled on it had I known about this beforehand.
You just don't know if your car will turn out to be a dud. There's no peace of mind when buying this car.
Of course, you can probably return a dud after some work: 3 strikes lemon law. Which means you'll have to replace the transmission, then abuse it and get it to flare again, rinse & repeat 2 more times, then call lexus corporate for buyback.
I'm not completely anti-lexus, but after owning a prettymuch bulletproof es300, I'm disappointed with how the 350 turned out.
02-06-07, 01:12 PM
#10
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wow what happened????? Lexus is supposed to be the most reliable brand with the best customer service, and now we have groups of people completely avoiding this brand? My ES350 has about 7,500 miles on it (05/06 build) and so far no issues at all. It is exactly what I expected, and more. I guess a bad tranny can totally ruin your mood....especially on such an expensive car. But I am still convinced that overall the quality is good... Maybe it's because I live in a mild-weathered area? The temperature here in Los Angeles hasn't gotten below 60 degrees all winter....except during the early hours when it dips to a freezing 48 degrees.
02-06-07, 01:28 PM
#11
Lexus Champion
wow what happened????? Lexus is supposed to be the most reliable brand with the best customer service, and now we have groups of people completely avoiding this brand? My ES350 has about 7,500 miles on it (05/06 build) and so far no issues at all. It is exactly what I expected, and more. I guess a bad tranny can totally ruin your mood....especially on such an expensive car. But I am still convinced that overall the quality is good... Maybe it's because I live in a mild-weathered area? The temperature here in Los Angeles hasn't gotten below 60 degrees all winter....except during the early hours when it dips to a freezing 48 degrees.
It goes back to the old discussion. With 70,000+ cars sold in the U.S. & Canada, you'd have to have at least 700+ cars with problems/issues to represent even 1% of sales. Let's hope Lexus get these issues taken care of ASAP, no matter how many problematic ares are out there, AND realizing there are a lot of good ones with satisfied owners too..
02-06-07, 01:39 PM
#12
The bottom line for me is..... Lexus will sell a lot of these cars. That's it.
They'll sell more than the last series ES for sure. Looks sell, and this car has the looks, no doubt. Some people will have problems, but they will be the minority. In the past it seems Lexus was definitely more customer orientated, really provided fixes for things and did their utmost to ensure complete customer satisfaction. This seems to have shifted to "sell more product" and have a few potentially unhappy customers. It's a reality and a problem associated with a fast growing company. More product = more sales. They are doing sales very well right now. They're definitely making far more $$$$$ than before as well doing this "sell more product" plan.
They'll sell more than the last series ES for sure. Looks sell, and this car has the looks, no doubt. Some people will have problems, but they will be the minority. In the past it seems Lexus was definitely more customer orientated, really provided fixes for things and did their utmost to ensure complete customer satisfaction. This seems to have shifted to "sell more product" and have a few potentially unhappy customers. It's a reality and a problem associated with a fast growing company. More product = more sales. They are doing sales very well right now. They're definitely making far more $$$$$ than before as well doing this "sell more product" plan.
02-06-07, 05:15 PM
#13
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