My Buy Back Experience
02-12-07, 11:09 AM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
... I am aware that this is the ES350 sub, but I enjoy reading all of the forums, as it's been very educational). I did not purchase another ES because of issues with the '03, and things I didn't like about the '07. I have to say, this GS purchase has been an odd experience. The way it came about is a very long story. In the end, I'm hoping to just love the car - and I have my fingers crossed that I won't have anywhere near the problems I had with the '03, especially since this is a cash purchase. Oh, and I'm switching out the run-flats.
Just don't get too addicted to this. As a former ES350 buyback "cast away", it was not a fun to read and to share your problems everyday with this CL family. Gets frustrating after awhile. I'm still visiting and reading this forum, but not as often. Now, I can't even keep my TSB updates list after that website went "private".
Anyway, welcome to CL and enjoy your GS!!! Oh, and a good idea to get rid off those runflats. But unless if you have very little miles and can sell them, I would recommend waiting until the winter is over. It makes no sense getting brand new tires right now and putting some extra wear and tear if you are getting rid off your current ones anyway. Still curious why GS purchase was "odd"?
02-12-07, 12:24 PM
#32
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Nomorees - I hope you're still reading this thread. It sounds like you didn't go through the three visits to the dealer to get the tranny problem fixed. Is that the case?
Also (for the greater reading audience) it seems that Lexus' offer to by back the car without pursuing every attempt to fix it seems they are acknowledging they don't have a fix for the flair issue, or am I reading too much into their buy back?
Also (for the greater reading audience) it seems that Lexus' offer to by back the car without pursuing every attempt to fix it seems they are acknowledging they don't have a fix for the flair issue, or am I reading too much into their buy back?
My experience is somewhat different but I hope for the same outcome. This thread has been useful for me in preparing myself for future action vs Lexus.
When I called my dealership service department to tell them that my replacement transmission was still slipping (and all captured on video several times over, by the way), they told me that there was no other option for repair. At this time I'm dealing with Lexus Customer Service and will pursue either a buy-back or lemon law.
02-12-07, 02:02 PM
#33
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BillP
It was just my second visit.
I actually sent my lemon law letter to Lexus before the dealership received the replacement transmission. Becasue of their delay in wanting a Lexus rep to look at my car and then having to order the tranmission, I had the necessary vehicle out of service days for Massachusetts lemon law before it could get installed.
Because of the knowledge obtained from this forum, I did not want to be subjected to multiple visits for this problem, so I went on the offensive.
Quite frankly I thought that I would have to wait to see if the replacement transmission failed, but I wanted the lemon law letter in place in case it did so I could then seek a refund, without additional service visits.
I fully intended to pursue the lemon law if it did.
Because they replaced the transmission before any response from Lexus, I thought I would be always wondering if the second tranmission would fail, but then Lexus called and offered the buyback. Trust me I was very surprised when they did.
The lemon law letter appears to move your case to someone at Lexus that can actually make decisions.
It was just my second visit.
I actually sent my lemon law letter to Lexus before the dealership received the replacement transmission. Becasue of their delay in wanting a Lexus rep to look at my car and then having to order the tranmission, I had the necessary vehicle out of service days for Massachusetts lemon law before it could get installed.
Because of the knowledge obtained from this forum, I did not want to be subjected to multiple visits for this problem, so I went on the offensive.
Quite frankly I thought that I would have to wait to see if the replacement transmission failed, but I wanted the lemon law letter in place in case it did so I could then seek a refund, without additional service visits.
I fully intended to pursue the lemon law if it did.
Because they replaced the transmission before any response from Lexus, I thought I would be always wondering if the second tranmission would fail, but then Lexus called and offered the buyback. Trust me I was very surprised when they did.
The lemon law letter appears to move your case to someone at Lexus that can actually make decisions.
02-12-07, 03:32 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
IMO, it's too early to get an accurate picture of resale values. The new model has been on the market for only about 10 months, so there's not that many being turned in on trade or coming off leases. Yes, there are some buybacks out there to be on the lookout for, but in the big picture, it will be some time before any sizeable numbers are available for resale. At that time the resale prices will be set.
Lex,
I was very recently given the going Black Book avg. value 28,800, a book it seems dealers rely on.
"Some went for less than that and some more to arrive at that figure." And dealers use that book to decide what wonderful trade allowance you will receive and I'm certain that is if they do not know it has issues.
I don't see that going up over time, I believe that would continue to go down and yet these are brand new cars for all intents and purposes, something is driving the---some go for less than that--- to arrive at 28,800 as an average.
IMO: We either need less transmission defects going to market or we need far more decked out UL's going and hiking up the average price as a result.
02-12-07, 05:24 PM
#35
The above is one perspective, though IMO a very narrow one.
You do realize these "syndrome sufferers" are part of the reason for the numerous and various TSIB releases to deal with things like windhsield tick noise, back glass tick noise, to give just two examples of a large volume. These TSIB issues come about as a direct result of proactive individuals who do not sit back and observe, they act on an issue or else there would be no TSIB for items like windshield, back glass.
People don't just usually drive up to a service advisor and announce that somewhere in the car there is a rattle, they usually pin it's location down, including description of sound and means of duplicating it and while you may not appreciate that process in posts, dealers CERTAINLY do. They want all the help they can get to deal with things like this because if they cannot, they get nailed for it in customer survey responses<---ask jjbodean about that concern among some dealers..., and as well it simply makes sense not to leave a customer in a car with something otherwise resolvable. In more and more cases, owner members come up with the cause and the remedy such as carpet squeak, but it requires sharing back and forth in threads to achieve even a DIY resolution to a legit issue or offer direct to dealer service the area in the car causing the issue.
We even have multiple transmission TSIB due to what you imply as some "syndrome sufferers" who refused to accept a transmission slipping as normal or learning, or other off-the-wall explanations early on with that issue(s) revealing itself nearly a year ago.
If you consider the above maybe you will see what dunno pointed out, we have people trying to help each other, people who did not and are doing nothing wrong to cause their problems but pay money for something that is not performing as it should.
You do realize these "syndrome sufferers" are part of the reason for the numerous and various TSIB releases to deal with things like windhsield tick noise, back glass tick noise, to give just two examples of a large volume. These TSIB issues come about as a direct result of proactive individuals who do not sit back and observe, they act on an issue or else there would be no TSIB for items like windshield, back glass.
People don't just usually drive up to a service advisor and announce that somewhere in the car there is a rattle, they usually pin it's location down, including description of sound and means of duplicating it and while you may not appreciate that process in posts, dealers CERTAINLY do. They want all the help they can get to deal with things like this because if they cannot, they get nailed for it in customer survey responses<---ask jjbodean about that concern among some dealers..., and as well it simply makes sense not to leave a customer in a car with something otherwise resolvable. In more and more cases, owner members come up with the cause and the remedy such as carpet squeak, but it requires sharing back and forth in threads to achieve even a DIY resolution to a legit issue or offer direct to dealer service the area in the car causing the issue.
We even have multiple transmission TSIB due to what you imply as some "syndrome sufferers" who refused to accept a transmission slipping as normal or learning, or other off-the-wall explanations early on with that issue(s) revealing itself nearly a year ago.
If you consider the above maybe you will see what dunno pointed out, we have people trying to help each other, people who did not and are doing nothing wrong to cause their problems but pay money for something that is not performing as it should.
02-12-07, 05:59 PM
#36
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[QUOTE=ES350Bob;2418044]The above is one perspective, though IMO a very narrow one.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
02-12-07, 06:08 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
[QUOTE=Frozen;2419750]
Also a good post with food for thought.
Frozen, a little off topic here, but I see on your location that you are in AK. Have you had any heavy snowfall this winter, to the point where you can comment on your cars performance in those conditions? We haven't had anything too bad yet (although we're supposed to get 9"-12" tonight & tomorrow) and was curious how the tires, ABS VSC and TRAC work in bad conditions. Tks.
The above is one perspective, though IMO a very narrow one.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
Frozen, a little off topic here, but I see on your location that you are in AK. Have you had any heavy snowfall this winter, to the point where you can comment on your cars performance in those conditions? We haven't had anything too bad yet (although we're supposed to get 9"-12" tonight & tomorrow) and was curious how the tires, ABS VSC and TRAC work in bad conditions. Tks.
02-12-07, 06:22 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
[QUOTE=Frozen;2419750]
I think I understand why you might feel that way as to remarkable and number of issues. The biggest issues, annoyance included, are unfortunately possible to have all in one car.
Thanks to video work by Ons, dunno and others you can at least get a glimpse of them.
The above is one perspective, though IMO a very narrow one.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, and I hope all those with these issues get some degree of satisfaction very soon, whatever it may be. I don't mean to imply anyone would lie about these issues, and that they are very real. But, you might also find it remakable for so many dissimilar issues to come up in one model, and especially a Lexus. I could imagind a bad tranny design in the first year out. I do wonder, however, if something of a feeding frenzy has begun where issues that would not rate a post for another car, Lexus or not, are getting on this site so as to illustrate the fact. Maybe not.
I think I understand why you might feel that way as to remarkable and number of issues. The biggest issues, annoyance included, are unfortunately possible to have all in one car.
Thanks to video work by Ons, dunno and others you can at least get a glimpse of them.
02-13-07, 01:46 PM
#39
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Frozen, a little off topic here, but I see on your location that you are in AK. Have you had any heavy snowfall this winter, to the point where you can comment on your cars performance in those conditions? We haven't had anything too bad yet (although we're supposed to get 9"-12" tonight & tomorrow) and was curious how the tires, ABS VSC and TRAC work in bad conditions. Tks.[/QUOTE]
Seventy-four incheas so far. Up here, it don't melt until April or May, rather it compresses on the roads into the bane of rear wheel drives, "black ice". The car is simply remarkable with regard to traction in snow and on ice. We had planned on adding Blizzaks, but started to notice how this thing digs through snow. I was a bit disappointed as I had planned to keep the stock wheels on the winters, and move up some for the summer set up. We are staying with the stock tires for now. My wife drives the ES daily, and if there was the SLIGHTEST issue with traction/stopping I would be hearing it, in spades. a lot.
Seventy-four incheas so far. Up here, it don't melt until April or May, rather it compresses on the roads into the bane of rear wheel drives, "black ice". The car is simply remarkable with regard to traction in snow and on ice. We had planned on adding Blizzaks, but started to notice how this thing digs through snow. I was a bit disappointed as I had planned to keep the stock wheels on the winters, and move up some for the summer set up. We are staying with the stock tires for now. My wife drives the ES daily, and if there was the SLIGHTEST issue with traction/stopping I would be hearing it, in spades. a lot.
02-14-07, 08:13 AM
#40
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My saga continues....
I contacted a couple of Lemon Law Legal Offices and they say I have a good case. I provided them with the necessary paperwork.
I finally linked up with the 1-800 Lexus Customer Service Rep (after several phone tags) who began to try to arrange for me to have the car inspected by a Field Rep at Modesto Valley Lexus. I told her that after I called the service department and told them the transmission replacement didn't fix the slippage problem they said there really wasn't anything else they could do. Based upon that comment, I said to her that the only two options were either a buy back or Lemon Law proceedings and I didn't understand the need for a Field Rep inspection. We went back and forth a bit and she finally said that Lexus would review my case and would be getting back to me in 4 to 6 weeks.
Meanwhile I'm going full speed ahead with Lemon Law proceedings - by the way, it's pretty awesome that the manufacturer will pay all attorney fees if you win the case.
My anger continues to grow.
I contacted a couple of Lemon Law Legal Offices and they say I have a good case. I provided them with the necessary paperwork.
I finally linked up with the 1-800 Lexus Customer Service Rep (after several phone tags) who began to try to arrange for me to have the car inspected by a Field Rep at Modesto Valley Lexus. I told her that after I called the service department and told them the transmission replacement didn't fix the slippage problem they said there really wasn't anything else they could do. Based upon that comment, I said to her that the only two options were either a buy back or Lemon Law proceedings and I didn't understand the need for a Field Rep inspection. We went back and forth a bit and she finally said that Lexus would review my case and would be getting back to me in 4 to 6 weeks.
Meanwhile I'm going full speed ahead with Lemon Law proceedings - by the way, it's pretty awesome that the manufacturer will pay all attorney fees if you win the case.
My anger continues to grow.
02-14-07, 02:35 PM
#41
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02-14-07, 03:49 PM
#43
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This is from the contract:
"In settlement negotiations, the Law Firm will demand that the manufacturer pay all attorney fees and costs as part of the settlement in accordance with California Civil Code Section 1794 and in addition to the damages to the Client....You have sole authority to accept any settlement offer made by the defendant. If the offer is insufficient to pay the attorney fees and court costs required by this agreement, you have the right to refuse the offer. The Law Firm will only be compensated for legal services rendered if a settlement or recovery is obtained for the Client. Therefore, fees are contingent upon an acceptable settlement being achieved or a successful verdict at trial."
Lemon Laws are written to protect the consumer and facilitate the process if you qualify.
"In settlement negotiations, the Law Firm will demand that the manufacturer pay all attorney fees and costs as part of the settlement in accordance with California Civil Code Section 1794 and in addition to the damages to the Client....You have sole authority to accept any settlement offer made by the defendant. If the offer is insufficient to pay the attorney fees and court costs required by this agreement, you have the right to refuse the offer. The Law Firm will only be compensated for legal services rendered if a settlement or recovery is obtained for the Client. Therefore, fees are contingent upon an acceptable settlement being achieved or a successful verdict at trial."
Lemon Laws are written to protect the consumer and facilitate the process if you qualify.
02-14-07, 06:05 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
This is from the contract:
"In settlement negotiations, the Law Firm will demand that the manufacturer pay all attorney fees and costs as part of the settlement in accordance with California Civil Code Section 1794 and in addition to the damages to the Client....You have sole authority to accept any settlement offer made by the defendant. If the offer is insufficient to pay the attorney fees and court costs required by this agreement, you have the right to refuse the offer. The Law Firm will only be compensated for legal services rendered if a settlement or recovery is obtained for the Client. Therefore, fees are contingent upon an acceptable settlement being achieved or a successful verdict at trial."
Lemon Laws are written to protect the consumer and facilitate the process if you qualify.
"In settlement negotiations, the Law Firm will demand that the manufacturer pay all attorney fees and costs as part of the settlement in accordance with California Civil Code Section 1794 and in addition to the damages to the Client....You have sole authority to accept any settlement offer made by the defendant. If the offer is insufficient to pay the attorney fees and court costs required by this agreement, you have the right to refuse the offer. The Law Firm will only be compensated for legal services rendered if a settlement or recovery is obtained for the Client. Therefore, fees are contingent upon an acceptable settlement being achieved or a successful verdict at trial."
Lemon Laws are written to protect the consumer and facilitate the process if you qualify.
now i see why they'd rather do a buyback. saves on lawyer fees.
02-15-07, 02:54 AM
#45
Saving legal fees isn't a bad thing but as was mentioned earlier, Lexus probably doesn't want documented Lemons running around so they'll be willing to buyback, especially since it appears there's no real fix yet.