ES350Bob

That's why I added the buyback part.

It is not adding up no matter how you look at it for such a 180 degree change to happen.

jjbodean

i would disagree as well, i would doubt it has anything to do with cost to repair

ES350Bob

If they don't want to repair something they won't, they will even overturn dealer diagnosis to deny repairs. I was told all expenses like that must be approved by corporate and claim of not able to duplicate it just does not wash in this case.

I have no idea with certainty why he is being jacked around in this case, except to say no customer should be put in a position like this.

ES350Bob

dunno,

How many days have you been in the loaner while under the mistaken impression your car was being worked on at body shop and what day was this first authorized to be performed by corporate field tech before being withdrawn yesterday?

LexBob2

Sounds reasonable.

toneman

dunnojack--I totally sympathize with you; although my personal experiences are nowhere near as serious as yours, I must say that I cannot stand a service manager's/tech's stance when attempting to troubleshoot issues by saying stuff like, "I couldn't find the problem" or "It's normal/acceptable" (either because they just say that it's so, or because it exists on an identical vehicle).

Case in point--I asked the tech to address a seatback issue (somewhat-noisy springs in the drivers's seatback; yes I know this is a trivial matter compared to stuff like tranny flare, but that's besides the point I'm about to make). The good news was that he was able to confirm the issue (i.e., none of that "I couldn't hear any noisy springs" BS); the bad news was that--and you won't believe that he would write off the issue w/ such a lame excuse--the front passenger seatback exhibited similar noise so the fact that the driver's seatback is noisy isn't anything out of the ordinary. Can you believe that kind of logical reasoning? WTH????

I also have to deal w/ similar cr*p regarding the "self-rising" driver's headrest--they won't take my word for it that my headrest indeed slowly but surely extends upward all on its own...no matter how much I tried to convince the tech that I wasn't dreaming that a few days prior to this visit I had pushed the headrest all the way down, and that it was at this very moment extended to its highest position (way higher than I would even consider extending the headrest, BTW).

Amazing how it almost always seems that when you attempt to address an issue w/ your local service department, they claim that yours is the first they've ever heard/seen of it and as such, probably won't take your word for it that the issue is real until they see it occur w/ their own eyes.

Okay, I'm done ranting...dunnojack's post touched a nerve 'cuz he is so right in voicing his frustrations when dealing w/ service departments.

onsknht

dunno, This is common Toyota management, it's been as you describe for as long as I've had Toyota's being serviced at a dealership, 15+ years. I've held a firm belief during 90% of those years the Service Department's customer service has been "overly sanitized." What I mean by this? The common protocol is to "dumb-down" the customer, I don't know if they train this or if it's simply a characteristic of the "Toyota U" teachings? Whatever the case, it is annoying as all hell, especially when they sit there like they know not a thing about what you're saying... Like "you're" the idiot. Don't believe me? Simply look at the multitudes of posts where people need to "prove" or literally print out the damn TSBs!

I argued through numerous visits that they goofed something up with the VSC wheel sensors on my Sequoia while fixing a brake TSB, it would stall while making left turns in front of oncoming traffic... It wasn't until I blew up and stormed over to the parts counter and started placing an order (on my dime) for two new wheel sensors that the Service Director finally popped up and "recalled" a prior issue... To this end, they simply removed, blew out and replaced the wheel sensors and the stalling never occurred again! I wasted countless hours, tech rides and dignity explaining the issue!!!! I'll never get that back! Throughout these visits they did everything BUT CHECK the wheel sensors like I told them to on the first visit.

At any rate... What I suspect you're starting to report.... The bottom line on the 2GR-FE and the U660E equipped vehicles is deteriorating RAPIDLY!

Considering buybacks, replacement costs, etc... Someone is talking very quickly right now about how to save their ****! I'm not kidding when I say the vehicles have a life on the books after the sale... ALL OPEN WARRANTIES ARE CONSIDERED LIABILITIES ON THE BALANCE SHEET!

Consider the numbers a bit... What's it cost to replace a transmission, buyback a car or pay simply for a minimum 4hrs labor on warranty work per car? Now consider 75K sold... At what profit per car? While the numbers are quite large, I'd bet the debits exceed the credits... While the ES is a hot seller, I bet it will be a year or more before it's profitable.

In the meantime... Get ready for a bundle more "DND" and "tech rides" cause I think the well has dried up on being nice, accountants typically aren't nice.... Whatever you do, don't blame the dealer, he's just as much a small fry in Toyota's eyes as you are and 'WANT_A_BE (GM & Ford)' (the Toyota CEO Watanabe or however it's spelled) needs to figure a way to save quite a few billion GW's in the next three years.

RobF350

something does not seem right, you are either being way to easy with them or too nasty.

There is a middle ground, as bad as you might think that may be thats just the way it is Jack.

picture some guy coming in with a video demanding a new car, they might just be seeing where you will go with it.

Call someone else and go from there, bypass that dealer as he is no help.
Go to another dealer, in a polite way trash talk your original dealer saying how they cant fix the problem, want to weld some stuff, etc...

MD350

When my wife's Toyota Sienna was new, it had some issues that needed to be addressed under warranty. The service writer told me that if they did not find anything wrong, I would be billed the labor rates for the time. Honestly, I have never had that told to me before. Luckily, they found the problem and I did not owe anything.

I hate to keep bringing up Honda/Acura products, but my past service experience has also been far superior.

dunnojack

I've been strictly professional this whole time.
The videos were used to assist the techs in finding my problem. That's it. It was never meant to be a buyback tool...... though it could be used as such.



The good news is that these nutjobs lied to me and played dumb. They cost themselves a 3rd strike. One more strike, and the lemon lawyers will be all over this.

I now have my car back and it rattles consistently while driving. No more gimmicks, no more pounding glass. The rattles are clearly there.

A lot of these service people are fat liars. They are probably told to lie to protect the dealership's bottom line.
Has anyone ever met a 100% honest technician?
One of the diagnostic specialists flat out lied to me last time. I could see it in his face.

ES350Bob

For your 4th time just take it to another dealer, once it is logged in that is your 4th time, the other dealer may or may not fix it but at least it counts as a 4th time. In my state it's 3 and that is it.

As for why the deception, it's not the dealer where warranty work is concerned, I cut those people slack they are VERY intimidated by corporate, I saw that first hand with corp field tech Vs. svc manager and tech foreman.

BTW: How long were you in that loaner thinking this was being taken care of?

onsknht

Ya know, I never gave that much thought, they would tell me the same thing... Even on my recent Clamry. I've always regarded it as more of a "formality," but did have it stressed to me on occasion.

I do have to side a little with the dealership on some of these issues, especially if they don't know you... I've been through typical treatment on anything I've bought through a dealer. It's business as usual until you give them reason to stick their neck out. As unfair as it may seem, some customers get the required customer support and others appear to get the red carpet thrown at them. There is a reason for that and a lot has to do with the way you deal with the dealer.

I am also starting to agree with MD on the "experience" between Toyota and Honda. So far it's been a complete 180. While I can't say Toyota reps ever treated me badly, there's just something different about it.

onsknht

Whatever you do, don't ever blame the guy twirling the wrenches... He's just there punching a clock. Any interaction he has with you or the invoice has been thoroughly sanitized by the fellas wearing the ties.

ES350Bob

MD, ons

I am really trying to seriously believe you were both actually told you would be charged in a cannot duplicate situation and it is not that I do not believe you.

That is absurd, never had any dealer tell me anything like that ever and if they did I'd tell them to shove the car up their rear if they could not duplicate it before ever thinking of assigning a dollar figure to me.

dunnojack

Since feb 13.

I was in constant contact with the service dept the whole time, and they did do some little things here and there, especially with the glass pounding test.

But I think I complicated things this past weekend by threatening to pursue a buyback.



Anyway, here's the condition I got my car back in. I recorded this tonight. It started rattling as soon as I drove off the car lot..... and they say they can't duplicate it... pfttt Unbelievable.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60673284837966

My car sounds like it is going to fall apart. During this recording, the car was driven on paved road, with only one medium bump.
It doesn't sound as bad as the other video in my sig, but it's the same defect.