View Poll Results: What grade of gas do you use in your ES350?
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Premium fuel or lower / Octane requirements (merged threads)
09-19-11, 06:52 AM
#76
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Is premium unleaded really required?
I know that the toyota camry engine and the Lexus ES350 engine are virtually the same. toyota recommends premium but its not required and works fine with regular unleaded, however, Lexus requires premium.
do you all put premium unleaded in your vehicles? I was wondering how putting regular unleaded will affect the overall life of the vehicle.
do you all put premium unleaded in your vehicles? I was wondering how putting regular unleaded will affect the overall life of the vehicle.
09-21-11, 05:53 PM
#80
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The bottom line on this subject as far as I am concerned is simple numbers. According to an April 2011 report by the Federal Highway Administration, the average driver drives about 13,500 miles annually. Let's assume the majority of ES drivers across the country are between 35 and 65 years of age, with an equal mix of male and female drivers. That's 13,632 miles driven per year in that segment, reliably close to the overall average.
The ES 350 gets combined mileage of 22 MPG according to the EPA. Although the price of gasoline has gyrated a bit, the difference between unleaded and premium lately stays right around 30 cents in my area of Georgia, and more like 15 cents in states like California. For example, today I fueled up with premium for $3.829/gal while regular unleaded at the same pump was $3.549/gal.
The simple math is that the average ES 350 driver will use about 620 gallons of gasoline this year. Buying premium will cost $186 more annually than buying regular unleaded. All other things being equal, that works out to about $15 per month difference to run premium. In California, the difference would be about $8 per month.
Someone who drives fewer miles would of course have even less than $8 to $15 per month difference. I drive about 25,000 miles per year, much of it on the highway, so my numbers would be a bit higher. My average MPG so far driving my ES 19,000 miles has been around 28 MPG. This works out to about 900 gallons annually, paying $270 per year more to use premium, or $22 per month. This would be at the high end of what anyone should expect to pay over and above using regular unleaded.
My experience in the past has been that using premium fuel over long distances and long periods of time, not just a few tankfuls, produces a higher performance, smoother running car with less maintenance than using regular unleaded. This is a car that I hope to still be driving reliably 10 years from now. Is it worth $8 to $15 per month as a sort of insurance policy/performance boost in a $40,000+ car? To me it absolutely is. Your mileage may vary.
Sources:
FHWA: Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group
Lexus ES 350 EPA estimate
Fuelly.Com: My 2008 Lexus ES350
California Gasoline Prices September 19, 2011
The ES 350 gets combined mileage of 22 MPG according to the EPA. Although the price of gasoline has gyrated a bit, the difference between unleaded and premium lately stays right around 30 cents in my area of Georgia, and more like 15 cents in states like California. For example, today I fueled up with premium for $3.829/gal while regular unleaded at the same pump was $3.549/gal.
The simple math is that the average ES 350 driver will use about 620 gallons of gasoline this year. Buying premium will cost $186 more annually than buying regular unleaded. All other things being equal, that works out to about $15 per month difference to run premium. In California, the difference would be about $8 per month.
Someone who drives fewer miles would of course have even less than $8 to $15 per month difference. I drive about 25,000 miles per year, much of it on the highway, so my numbers would be a bit higher. My average MPG so far driving my ES 19,000 miles has been around 28 MPG. This works out to about 900 gallons annually, paying $270 per year more to use premium, or $22 per month. This would be at the high end of what anyone should expect to pay over and above using regular unleaded.
My experience in the past has been that using premium fuel over long distances and long periods of time, not just a few tankfuls, produces a higher performance, smoother running car with less maintenance than using regular unleaded. This is a car that I hope to still be driving reliably 10 years from now. Is it worth $8 to $15 per month as a sort of insurance policy/performance boost in a $40,000+ car? To me it absolutely is. Your mileage may vary.
Sources:
FHWA: Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group
Lexus ES 350 EPA estimate
Fuelly.Com: My 2008 Lexus ES350
California Gasoline Prices September 19, 2011
09-22-11, 06:21 AM
#81
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When my wife, the accountant, was commuting 180 miles a day, she ran several tank fulls of all three grades in our van. She found that she got the best MPG's and the lowest cost per mile by running the mid-grade gasoline.
Run a few tanks of each and see if there is a difference.
Run a few tanks of each and see if there is a difference.
09-22-11, 08:16 PM
#82
I've run through a thousand miles on 93, then on 87, then back to 93 octane. I've discerned no difference whatsoever in mgp or acceleration or performance. I'm at 107,000 miles now and have been using regular 87 unleaded since 2007 without any issues.
09-22-11, 08:35 PM
#83
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1000 miles is about 2 fill-ups, probably not enough for the computers to adjust to the change in octane. If saving $4/week is a priority, then by all means continue to go against the owner's manual recommendation.
09-23-11, 08:11 PM
#84
Lexus Champion
The subject has been discussed in detail since the ES350 came out 5 1/2 years ago with no concrete answers. IMO you cannot go wrong with any grade of gas above 86 octane.
As mentioned before, Toyota uses the same 3.5 non-direct injected V6 and recommends regular in the Camry, Avalon, Venza, Rav4, Highlander and Sienna.
As mentioned before, Toyota uses the same 3.5 non-direct injected V6 and recommends regular in the Camry, Avalon, Venza, Rav4, Highlander and Sienna.
09-24-11, 12:45 AM
#85
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My sales person told me the 2011 ES350 doesnt require high octane gas. Regular octane gas will do.
Been using regular octane all the time for almost a year now.. no problem at all!
In my opinion try getting Chevron gas.. feels better in my opinion. LOL
Been using regular octane all the time for almost a year now.. no problem at all!
In my opinion try getting Chevron gas.. feels better in my opinion. LOL
09-25-11, 08:38 AM
#86
I've driven about half that on 89 octane and have experienced no loss of fuel economy.
As lowrideraz would say...do a search.
09-25-11, 12:05 PM
#87
okdonk.........the dealer told you to use regular because that is the specified fuel for your 2011 ES. It's in your Owner's Manual. The car's engine control module (ECM) has no way to determine what fuel is in the tank except that if the ECM detects detonation ("pinging"/"knocking") that is severe enough (sensed by one or both knock sensors) the ECM will retard the ignition timing to eliminate the pinging. The higher the octane rating of the fuel the more resistance to pinging there is (everything else being equal). I do not know Toyota's philosophy on their programmed timing advance and knock control, so whether the ECM retards the timing only for the time period where there is actual pinging and/or whether the ECM reverts to a different (less advanced) timing curve for the rest of the "trip" only, and then on the next engine start restores the timing back to the "normal" programmed curve, I don't know. Generally a piston engine is more efficient (power and fuel economy) when the ignition is advanced as much as possible to the point just where the engine will encounter pinging using the specified/recommended fuel. Severe detonation/pinging tends to occur under high engine loads (the driver may not even hear it) and this is when it can cause damage, and the manufacturers obviously want to prevent this. So.........with the ES 350 other than the engine max. output derating of the 2011 and the fuel octane rating recommendation change, on the surface there appears to be no other changes (even the mileage ratings are the same) and I suspect that most owners of the pre 2011 cars in "normal" driving are not going to notice anything if they use something less than the recommended 91/92 octane (premium) fuel, just as has been noted on this forum. BUT.......if you do hear any signs of detonation (a "rattling" sound) change the fuel that you are using to premium grade and see if the pinging is reduced/eliminated.
09-26-11, 10:59 AM
#88
More importantly is WHERE you get your gas. Toyota, as do others, recommends Top Tier gasoline in all their vehicles. I cannot tell you the number of cars I see with bad gas in them in the shop.
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
09-28-11, 04:29 AM
#89
Run regular 87 all the time no problem. In fact when bought as CPO in late 09, dealer said they only use regular in all Lexus models. Runs fine, 23-24 around local stop/go.........33-34 on trip. so i'm fine with that.
09-28-11, 12:46 PM
#90
Because of a failed emissions test issue with a previous car (root cause was excessive intake valve deposits) I had dealings (by invitiation) with the head tech, and the P engineer in charge of our emissions testing program (and the lab, which is now shut down) here, they confirmed that you do get more additives in the two higher octane (premium.......91/92 & 94) fuels compared to the lower octane (regular.......87 & 89) fuels. This applies in this market and I suspect it's similar elsewhere. Chevron had the first "top tier" gasoline here and the extra additives including the deteregent additive "Techron" can be useful. Shell is advertised here as "top tier" as well, and I'm guessing that Shell Oil does the same thing (don't they talk about "Nitrogen" in their advertising?). Chevron has the only refinery here and supplies gas to a lot of the service stations (brand name & downmarket) in this area, but not necessarily with Chevron's additives, supposedly. They tend to "guard" their own additives. Now.......with our ES 350s, not having the additional additives when using regular fuels may be a moot point, but just be aware that you may be giving up some benefits other than just the octane rating when using "regular" fuel. And as mentioned by Road Rage......stick to the brand name "top tier" fuels, which is in accordance with the Owner's Manual.