Two for Maryland here too. They don't call me MD350 for nothing!!

 

Just took my first trip (a couple of hours), and the mileage was 26.1.

I remember my first long trip in the ES was 31 mpg.

 

That's right in line with the EPA hwy rating, right? I can't remember the exact numbers, other than the ES was better. Any new impressions after the extended drive? Did you use the nav w/ real-time traffic?

 

the RL trip computer hasn't proven to be accurate in my initial gas purchases...first trip 21 mpg....second trip 24 mpg. all driving is semi rural with tons of stop signs and aggressive accellerations out of turns.

not that bad.

 

I realy don't drive much, and for the price, the ES suited me just fine. However, I had Premium Plus w/o Nav, so it's probably not a fair comparison with respect to the technology.

The RL definitely handles better, but it's a firmer ride. Now that I've spent more time in the car, I don't think the road noise is any worse than the ES. The big differences in noise are the engine and wind.

From day 1, I've hated the knocking when the ES started up. After 5 minutes, it was fine, but until then, I felt like I was in a VW. THe Acura has little engine noise, but what noise it does have, sounds like a high performance car (at least to my ears).

Then there's the wind noise. I never really worried much about it in the Lexus, since I did mostly local driving, but I did notice it at higher speds. In the Acura, you hear virtually none, and I was up between 70 and 80 for much of my trip.

My entire family likes the interior better. The wood accents are better, and the finish of the car seems a step up.

What I miss from the ES...

Push button start. Why did they bother with keyless ignition, then put something that looks like a key in the same place a key goes? Just stupid if you ask me...

Floor mats - the floor mats in the Acura are completely out of place. They feel like they came from Walmart. I'll replace with the all weathers anyway, but they really are cheap.

Wood wheel and shift **** - I upgarded the RL, but it should come standard in a $50k car.

MP3 Player - The stereo in the RL is significantly better, but he MP3 player does not read ID3 tags. For such a great system, I expected better. The Lexus does a good job with MP3s, but the base stereo in the ES is not in the same class as the RL.

Ventilated seats - None in the RL. Went from beige interior in the ES (to hard to keep clean) to black in the RL, and the seats do get hot. Not such a big deal in Boston...

Rear seat room - excellent in the ES. Not great in the RL. Space for passengers behind the driver and front passenger is the same, but the middle is non-existent due to the hump. A non issue for us, but worth noting.

Parking sensors - I really got used to them, and the RL can have back sensors only. I am using the included camera (which is great), but I miss the front sensors when I park in the garage.

My biggest issue with the RL is getting used to all the technology. This car is not for the meek when it comes to electronics. I'm pretty good with that kind of thing, and it's still taking me time. I havn't really used the NAV traffic, but will test it out this afternoon on my way home. Once I get a handle on the commands, it will be awesome, but for now I need to relax everytime I tell it to display the map and it puts on the air ! It rarely misinterprets what I say, but there are close to 700 commands, and I still am learning.

The RL cost me more, but it's really in the same ballpark as the ES depending on options. For me, they key was reading the Acura BB - the things tey complain about are in a totally different world (Acura is not marketting the car etc...) once you've been through the transmission issues with the ES.

 

I agree with gpension...I am absolutely amazed by the lack of wind noise....the ride is significantly different...the es rides like a Buick and the acura rides like a BMW. My wife prefers the Buick ride, I like the BMW ride...to each their own. If back seat room is a priority, buy the Avalon. The Avalon has the most spacious back seat of any car I have ever seen.

If I had to pick one main reason for buying the RL over the ES, it has to be the internet forums...You are also right about the information provided by the forums...when you read the Lexus forums you hear about...buybacks due to transmission failures, comments about the transmission flares, creaks and rattles that dealers don't resolve, unintended accelleration involving serious damage, design flaw wind noise, diesel engine noise (which is normal???), low quality stereo (non UL models) ...read the acura forums and you hear complaints like preference conflicts caused when you have 2 key fobs in the vehicle...issues with the automatic speed controlled windshield wipers.

 

I wonder with so many more ES's sold vs. RL's (about 12 to 1) if you're going to find a wider cross section of owners reporting on both pros and the cons on the ES forum?

 

LexBob2, you make an interesting comment.

Those who own the RL know what a fine car it is. However, corporate Honda or the Acura management have done an extremely poor job of presenting an Acura image of substance and quality.

I owned four different year RL's. Each was a wonderful car to drive. None gave me any mechanical trouble. Did I read of this excellence in trade magazines? No.

I did read, time after time, that the Lexus WAS the most reliable luxury brand. In addition, Lexus advertising is more frequent and and substiantive compared to Acura advertisng.

It has been written that members of the Lexus community do more complaining about problems than those of other car communities. I do not agree. Take the time to extensively view Mercedes, Infiniti, Acura, BMW, etc. forums. You might find different types of complaints but believe me, some are quite vicious in their wordage.

I now own a 2007 Lexus. I have owned most every other mid-size luxury sedan over the years. I did not buy the Lexus based only upon its reputation. I bought it because the car pleases me more in many ways than the competition.

My suggestion is that if you compare cars, do so based upon cars with similar prices that are equipped in much the same way. My present ES350 cannot be compared to my former 2006 M45. It should not be considering that the M cost me $20k more than the ES. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

Based upon price, the ES and RL are not comparable.

 

While I love and 100% agree with the rest of your post, I do have to comment on this statement. At MSRP, you're absolutely correct. In real-world negotations, they're pretty darn close and have to be compared. I've mentioned before that we started out looking at the ES and the TL. Our dealer suggested the comparison with the RL, and based on many of the luxury appointments in the ES, it's not as far-fetched as I originally thought. Ultimately, we were just over $1,000 apart between the sales price on an RL and the carsdirect.com price on the ES. If the RL had better fuel economy, a backup camera, and parking sensors, we probably would've bought it instead. If I was the main driver, we'd either be in an RL or an MDX.

Given how few RL's are sold, and the primary demographic that buys them, I also have to discount the internet forums data a little bit. While it may very well be valid, it can't be ignored that there are a lot more ES owners online than there are RL owners.

 

I paid $36k for my ES w/o Nav 1 year ago. I just priced a base RL (w/o nav) at $38k. I paid $41k for my RL Tech. To me, that's pretty close, but based on MSRP, I know there's a big difference.

As a driver, the lack of these cars on the road is really weird. They only sold 600 last month. However, I really don't see many ES350s, based on the number they sell.

 

The RL seems to be a "mystery" car. I can see why the ES350 sells in the volume it does. It offers a high level of luxury, comfort, performance and gas mileage for the price, and no doubt will hold its value very well come trade-in time. The RL offers a lot for the money too vs. its direct competition. I think the major competition for the RL is in-house with the TL. If Acura plans to continue selling the RL, I wouldn't be suprised if they make some tweaks/changes to it to boost sales. I can't imagine them without a flagship sedan in the lineup.