gpension

I have been looking at replacement cars for my ES350. Unfortunately, I purchased the Lexus based on reputation, and didn't compare it to any other cars. It really fit my needs perfectly, but now I need to find something else.

I'm sure many of you looked at other cars while you were making your decision, so I'd like some advice, based on what's important to me:

1) Size - The ES is perfect for my family. We have a mini van, but 4 of up (or my wife and two friends) fit comfortably in the car should we choose to drive it.

2) Luxury - I would like a smooth, relativly quiet ride. I assumed I was getting that in the ES, and I did (once the car warmed up). It needs to be either front wheel or AWD (I'm in the Northeast). I'm also trying to stay in a luxury brand.

3) Interior - Comfort, rich looking, but I don't need NAV. I have had the car for 1 year, and have 9,000 miles on it - I drive back and forth to work, and that's pretty much it (aside from the weekends). I like Bluetooth and a decent stereo, both of which I've been somewhat disappointed with in the ES.

4) Price - Less than $40k. The ES is a Premium Plus w/o NAV, and it ran $38k all in, so a little more is ok.

I left off reputation for quality, given the experience I've had with the ES, but I'm not interested in anything that has big, known issues.

My very short list includes 2 cars that I've tested:

Acura RL (base) - No Nav, lots of additional features, $38k.

Cadillac STS AWD - W/o Nav, there's no Bluetooth. Not sure on price, but I should be able to get it for around $40k.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance...

VroomVroom

We came quite close to selecting an RL when we were in the market. The SH-AWD is very impressive, and it's seemingly a very reliable vehicle. I'd toss the Infiniti M in there as well, but I've heard of some mechanical issues with their vehicles.

We initially looked at the Acura TL, and that's still a vehicle I really like. Honestly though, given the dealer treatment in my area I have a hard time thinking of Acura as a luxury brand. That certainly may differ in your neck of the woods.

We tried hard but couldn't find a domestic vehicle that compared favorably. This included the STS. Ultimately, for us nothing really compared with the ES, particularly when price was factored in. The only reason the RL stayed in the running so long was that our local dealer had two '06 leftovers that they were dramatically discounting to get close to the ES. The lack of reverse cam and parking sensors made the decision even easier.

Anyway, best of luck. I'm sorry to hear the ES hasn't worked for you.

kingofire

How about a CTS. Its actually performs well in the snow albeit a rear wheel drive car and is a lot of fun to drive at the same time very very quiet. It doesnt come with Bluetooth so I am not sure how important that is for you.

Another car is the BMW 328 awd or even the 335 turbo awd. Its actually a pretty quiet too.

How about a used Lexus GS300 awd? Those cars are awesome!!!

gpension

I never considered the CTS - I don't think I could do RWD. I'm west of Boston, so we get plenty of snow. Otherwise, it would have been a possibility. I understand the 2008 will have AWD, but it's the first model year, and I've learned my lesson

The BMW is too small, and I just can't consider another Lexus.

Thanks for the responses.

aeroengine

After my experience with the ES350 I'm really sorry I didn't pick the CTS. I loved the way the CTS handles. We are now quite happy with the RX350 that replaced the ES350 hoping the tranny doesn't fail. The other car we liked so much I bought it for my sister was the SRX. As long as you stay away from the Northstar engine you'ld be happy with the Cadillac.

ba-b4

You should get a TL. FWD, pretty luxurious, good reputation, large enough for a family under 40k with lots of change to spare. Or G35 awd? Those aren't bad either but I'd pick honda and toyota over nissan though. What was wrong with your ES350 btw?

gpension

Thanks for the suggestion. With the RL discounted so much, I'd been leaning towards it over the TL, but the TL is nice as well.

My ES has had the transmission flare since last August. Still working through a resolution, although I anticipate it should be settled shortly.

garsarno

I would look at the Volvo S80 V8 AWD version. Seems like a nice car.

mixonchik

CTS is piece of junk. Better get ford. Take a look at new C class if you are not looking for a big car. If you want something bigger take M35 or RL.

Pheonix

Yeah never buy an american luxury car. You loose $10,000 off the sticker price taking it off the parking lot - seriously... That's like a year's depreciation. Plus they're simply not even in the ballpark of being assembled as well as the original Lexi were 18 years ago.

The RL & TL are completely different types of cars, and frankly the G's smoke them to high heaven if that's the kind / class of car you want.





I would definately ditto looking at the Volvo's... Anyone else and you're honestly looking at sporty with leather more than you are LUXURY. If you're looking at the big honda A. Screw that, buy an Infinity.

rlj4246

There is a good reason the RL is so heavily discounted. Do you think they would discount it so much if it sold well at all. I had a 06 and 07 TL and would recomend one highly. Also my dealer was great. Every bit as good as my Lexus dealer. Totaled the TL(not my fault) so switched to the ES. I was also disapointed in the ES and I now own a GS which I love. TL will be all new in 09 but both mine were trouble-free. More than I can say for the ES I had.

VroomVroom

It's interesting that the RL has been such a sales disaster. Acura seems to strive for the sporty/value market. When that works - a la the TSX and TL - it's great. When it fails...kaboom.

I was really, really impressed with the RL. It just seems like a 'tweener. Too many gadgets for the > 50 market, too expensive for the younger crowd, and seemlingy not enough marketing muscle behind it.

If the '07 models end up being discounted as drastically as the '06's (we're talking within $2k of the ES, or ~ $13k below sticker), and if you're comfortable with the Acura dealer experience in your area, I'd certainly recommend looking close at one.

Volvo is certainly a good recommendation. Personally, I've never found a comfortable seating position in any of their models, so I've not looked any further. In the price range you're after, though, it's hard to go beyond the value of the Japanese offerings. One of my favorite sedans is the Audi A6, but you can't touch that with any type of features for under $50k, and that's with a 3.2L V6 that is just barely potent enough. The V8 pushes you dangerously close to $60k.

gpension

Thanks for all of the responses. I'll check out the Volvos.

It's interesting to see the feedback on the RL. Given the discounts, I can pretty much move from my ES w/no NAV into a RL w/no NAV for almost the same money. I know it's been a sales disaster, but I couldn't find anything bad to say about it. I wouldn't pay $46k for one, but it's attractive to me at $38k.

rlj4246

I wonder if it is because the RL is a front drive car, that is engine is in sideways, that is converted to AWD as opposed to a GL being a rear drive, ie engine in normal and They listed for the same or a little higher than a comp. GS. I drove one when me car was getting serviced and I just did not do much for me but I cannot pinpoint why. Seems a lot of others feel the same. Your are correct, the TL accounts for about half of the sales. Great looks, good performance. Only gripe I had was torque steer. If you get on one hang on.

carbuff

I just purchased an ES350 because it best fit my criteria in a quality automobile:

What is my criteriar?

I want safety.
I want comfort.
I want reliability
I want luxury.
I want performance.
I want state-of-the-art technology features.
I want a visual pleasing body style.
I want a tasteful and rich looking interior.
I want good fit and finish.
I want a car whose mpg is competitive not necessarily superior.

I want these things in a mid-size premium sedan. The ES350 has these things at the price I wanted to pay.

For the money you want to spend, I think that the Acura RL best meets my criteria. My former 2005 RL was a superb automobile. The fact that Acura marketing is understated has nothing to do with the value of the RL.

My experience in ownership of the RL was thoroughly enjoyable and problem free.

It many ways the RL differs from the ES. It has a more precise handling characteristic. It feels different in perceived overall size, especially with regard to seating comfort. Its body design is more sharper-edged than the ES. It has better pickup and passing speeds than the ES.

If you are able to purchase an RL for the price you listed, you will find it to be a great buy.