Fiat Lexus

I posted most of this on the SoCal forum but then thought there might be broader interest.

First, I've an aversion to car dealerships. The Lexus ES350 I bought last night is the first time I've purchased through a dealer in a little over 30 years.

Second, I hate the "we'll meet or beat any price you get from someone else" game. Giving the other side a number isn't in your best interest. If you give them a target, they know how much to beat it by. They can also play games with how do you know this number is real, is it attached to a specific VIN, yada yada. If they don't know what they have to beat, it makes them sweat a little, not you.

Finally, just the whole process of driving & phoning back and forth can wear you, the Buyer, out until you finally say the heck with it and take the best offer that's on the table at the time.

I contacted six dealerships plus an automobile broker (Autoland) and received seven bids, including two bids from one dealership through a communications tangle of e-mail and phone, and one dealer that declined to give me a written number by e-mail.

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Well, I finally purchased tonight. Got the basic (premium package) ES 350 in Aquamarine Pearl with Gray interiors.

MSRP: $37,387
Invoice: $33,404
Sales Price: $32,350 + T/L Someone might do a little better but I'm a happy camper.

Via internet connections through Edmunds and our credit union, plus one rec from this board, I contacted a total of seven sources and received eight bids.

The high was $33,904, the initial low was $32,404 by two dealers. I broke the tie by asking one of those two to knock it down to $32,350 and they did so in a second. I may have been able to squeeze for more but I'd been happy with them all through the process of investigation, going for test drives, etc. The other dealership was much further away...shrug.

The intermediate price bids were $33,250, $32,904, $32,688, and $32,589, the last two by two different reps at the same dealership...a situation arising out of delayed communications, crossed wires, etc. The spread from lowest to highest was $1,654 dollars.

In requesting each bid, my e-mail included the following:

Also, several dealer reps have told me, "Let me know what price quotes you're getting elsewhere and I'll work with you." Sorry, but I won't work that way. Just give me the price up front that you'd give in "working with me" if you were in competition with another dealer...hit me with your best shot.

I'd like to give a negative shout out about Santa Monica Lexus. Originally, they were the dealership I was most predisposed to do business with, being the closest, most convenient. But they. would. not. give. me. a. bid. under. the. terms. I. requested. In an exchange of e-mails that went around for at least five cycles, they kept telling me to come in tonight, why drive through traffic, how could I walk away from the lowest price, etc.

Well, the price they quoted orally a couple of weeks ago was beaten by three bids at the time and two of those bids were improved by the time I got quotes in writing today. I bent over backwards to give them the chance to compete for my business but they were by turns obnoxious, insulting, and manipulative and ultimately would not do business my way and just give me a number, whereas five other dealerships and a broker did. Their excuses for not doing so and their tactics, pretty transparent, were a b.s. and c.s.

Of the seven bids, the dealer that I'd liked the best from the initial round of discussions made the lowest offer, the dealer that I liked second-best was the highest offer.

And finally, to name the dealership that I purchased from: Jim Faulk Lexus, Beverly Hills. Kudos to internet manager Angela Polasky, who managed to hit that nice zone of being persistent without being pushy and was always helpful and informative; a nod also to her assistant Andrew. The only thing I can complain about is the time it took to see the Finance guy to do the paperwork but I guess that you need to expect that on a Friday night at the end of the month. (Elapsed time from walk-in to drive-out was a little over two hours.)

MD350

Here is my opinion. I work in the auto finance business, on the bank side (Not the dealer side). Most dealers will not give you their rock bottom price until they know you are ready to sign and drive. They don't want to drop their drawers and give you a great price, only for the customer to go shop it down the street. When they know you are serious (usually in person and not on the internet), they know you are ready to take delivery, they will do what it takes to make the deal. They will give it all up to make sure you walk out in a new car. But, if they know you are just shopping or browsing, they won't take you seriously and won't give you the "best" price.

Sometimes, leaving the internet alone and just going to your local dealer, going right to the sales manager and telling him/her you are ready to buy a car today if the price is right. You will be amazed where that will get you. Saves all of that B.S. you mentioned with bids, e-mails, etc. But, you do have to go in educated. Know what invoice is, what customer AND dealer incentives are on the vehicle, etc. This info can be found in a publication called "automotive news" which should be at your local library.

Bottom line, you know it is a great deal when the customer and the dealership is happy. Win-win for everyone. Sounds like you are happy with your deal and that is what counts.

And as to waiting to get into finance, yeah we call that "the box" in the business. It usually bottle-necks there, and at month end your wait time was actually not bad at all.

Enjoy the car!

Fiat Lexus

Well, I made clear that I was going to buy Friday night or possibly Saturday (THC was recovering from oral surgery and wasn't feeling well). The lowest price came from a dealership that I'd been to four times and I'm sure they'd taken a gauge of me as I'd taken the gauge of them. The other low bid was from a dealership that I'd never visited but I'd exchanged a couple of e-mails and talked to on the phone a couple of times.

Lexus Santa Monica's attitude really mystifies me. I'd been in. I'd taken a test drive. I told them that I was buying *now*. And they never gave me number.

Fwiw, I work in sales/service on commission myself (real estate) and I don't begrudge a profit to the dealership. I figure the "true" cost of an ES350 is about $30,000, on top of which the dealership has overhead before we even get to the commission splits and profit for the dealership.

What I really have a strong aversion to is the game playing. I don't do it in my biz and I don't like it done to me in other people's biz. I figure that if they know I'm getting multiple bids, they can calculate how much they want to move the car and how much they think someone *else* will bid and then try to undercut that.

Indeed, one dealership (Longo) did not really want to give me a number until I made it clear that that was the only chance they had to give my business. Their assumption seemed to be that I would then take that number and use it as a lever against someone closer to get a better price. But I told all the dealers that I wouldn't do that and so I didn't.

pumpkin

Hey,

nice job on the price stuff, but what exactly came with the car? I looked at the basic premium option price and it was only $1280 list, and it required other options as well.

the premium plus was only 2480 so that alone would also not be enough to get to $37K.

not trying to be mean, but trying to learn exactly what I might be able to deal with for a car in Dallas area.

thanks, and again, nice job on below invoice pricing.

pumpkin

Fiat Lexus

Pumpkin, that $1,280 looks like the Premium number pulled from Consumer reports. I never could get their numbers to agree on MSRP with what the options actually built are.

The MSRP [in SoCal] for the base model is $37,387 and that aligns with the MSRP on the lexus.com build-your-Lexus website.

The MSRP for the Ultra Luxury is $41K and change. Those are the two standard numbers that I saw on every vehicle around here.

Let's see...even CR says the bottom line price is $29,722 plus dealer invoice for options. $29,722 plus $1,280 gets to $31,002 as the break-even point. Umm. Just noticed that the CR bottom line doesn't include the $715 delivery/destination charge, which seems pretty unavoidable...anyone get out paying that?...which gets the total to $31,717.

amf1932

I was wondering why there is such a price variation for the UL edition from the East Coast to the West Coast? I bought my car 14 months ago(May '06), and here is the window sticker. Why the 3K difference, or did I get that much more equipment?

MD350

Toyota and Lexus have different divisions. Mid-Atlantic, New England, Southeast, to name a few. Pricing and packaging of vehicles can vary.

Macklin

I gotta say, this will be the LAST time I buy a newly released car!

I decided it was finally time to replace my 10 year old ES and was thinking about an IS...until I saw spy pics of the new ES. HAD TO HAVE ONE! So I got one of the first to arrive at my dealership. Actually I had my deposit on the very first to arrive, but decided the Moon Shell Mica was not to my liking.

They would not negotiate...period. I got $500 off as a previous customer, and they felt like that was generous. But, I HAD to have that car. Stupid me. Live and learn. BUT I still look forward to getting in the seat every morning so I get some solace from that.

Those are great numbers for sure. But like amf said, the deals our west are better than on the east coast.

LexBob2

When we bought our ES350 the first week in May '06, we too got a whopping $500 off the sticker price. The last time I said I'd never buy a car right after launch was when I bought a Merkur 2-door turbo hatchback when they came out. Talk about taking a bath on a car! I got a good price on our trade in for the Lexus, an '03 Avalon w/21,000 miles but probably would have got that good price anywhere. I'm very satisfied with the 350 and don't regret the purchase at all. I'm sure resale will hold up better than the Merkur!

VMon

Just joined this Club Lexus...I need your opinion on exterior and interior colors. I'm looking for the richest look with the least maintenance.

I'm not sure which color will show the car and it's chrome off the best and which interior is the richest, will look the best over time, and is easier to keep clean.

I figure it's most likely black exterior, but I've heard it's a pain to keep clean. I called a detailer, and he said that I can buy this brush thing that's better when it's dirty. I would just have to run that on the car each time before we drive anywhere. I'm leaning to black w/ black interior. I've read that the black is sparkly black vs. a flat black.

I like the white, but it has the cashmere interior, and I think that, while the outside is easier to keep clean, the inside will wear faster and get dirty quicker.

Ruby looks very cool, too. I've never owned a ruby or black car.

Smokey Granite looks nice, but it's kind of like the charcoal gray that I have now, and it kind of looks like every other car out there.

As for wear and tear on the interior, it's me and my teenager and, rarely, our dog in the back seat.

I'm buying an ES 350 today with Prem+, w/o Nav. The price is $31,700 plus $695 for installed satellite radio and $885 for alloys dipped 3 times (ha!) in chrome.

Thanks,
Vmon

VroomVroom

I read the initial post in this thread with a lot of interest. I'm always curious to see how folks navigate the car buying process.

Personally, I prefer to deal face-to-face. However, that's after significant research. I often know more about the vehicle I'm interested in buying than anyone at the dealership, and I come armed with a strong idea about pricing. There are two keys for me, and if both aren't met, I walk. First, I have to be able to work with the salesperson and the manager. That's really a subjective thing and I generally know in five minutes or less if it'll happen. If that's met, then the second thing is that everybody has to play fair. In other words, I'm not going to pay sticker...or generally even invoice...but I respect that they're not going to take a loss to sell me a car. With that, let the games begin.

Both were easily met by our dealer (Putnam in Redwood City) and salesman (Robert Garcia). In fact, I was impressed immediately with his sales approach and extensive knowledge of not only the Lexus lineup, but that of the key competitors. We ended up buying my wife's car for $800 over invoice, and I'd repeat the deal again in an instant. I negotiated harder on my RX and got it at close to $1,500 under invoice. Both experiences were downright enjoyable and I woudn't hesitate to recommend the salesman and dealership to anyone.

That said, a few of my friends insist on doing the internet/email/fax thing, involving a number of dealerships and not visiting a store until it's time to sign the contract and drive off in the new car. They've been really successful with this method, but interestingly...not sure if this is just coincidence...they've had more hassles with post-sale problems. That's one of the reasons I want to meet the people who are getting my money, hopefully building a relationship at the same time. When there's a problem, I want to know who to go to, and I want to feel confident that they have a vested interest in resolving it.

Anyway, congrats on the new machine. And for those of you still shopping...best of luck. My only advice is - no matter the circumstances of your approach - enjoy the experience. You don't want to get behind the wheel every day with residual negative thoughts about the buying experience. A good deal is totally in the eye of the person signing the contract, and that doesn't always mean $X above/below invoice.

Fiat Lexus

VV, I used something of a hybrid approach, making initial contacts over the internet, then showing up in person at the dealerships that interested me the most, then asking everyone for a written quote via internet--I told those that I was visiting that that's what I'd be doing--and then taking the best bid, making allowances for convenience (distance) and my comfort level with the people.

VMon, I ruled out both black and white because they're the most difficult to keep looking clean. My daughter pointed out that there are so many silver colored cars that finding mine in a parking lot would sometimes be difficult...and I do like to stand out a little.

I also asked a salesman at a pre-owned lot about interior colors and he said that cashmere was the hardest to keep clean. He liked black himself but black shows contrasting stuff really easily. Think gray hair. If you're under 30, never mind.

VroomVroom

Not to go off on a tangent, but the 'easiest to keep clean' argument always strikes me as a bit funny. No color - exterior or interior - is easier than another. I always recommend that people get the colors that look best to them. While it's true that some colors will look dirty sooner/more easily than others, they all get dirty and require maintenance to look their best.

This time around both my wife and I started with the interiors that looked best to us, and then picked from the exterior colors associated with them. To my eyes, the ES just looks outstanding in silver (i.e. Tungsten...can't forget marketingspeak...it'd be a crime to just call it "silver" ). Ditto the RX, and that was actually my first choice. I went with the blue for the same reason your daughter mentioned. There seem to be about seven million silver RX's (including two on my street @ home) in the bay area.

pumpkin

FiatLexus==thanks for clearing that up, and still......... AWESOME price. Well done getting it below invoice.

I am in the southeast region apparently, and the salesman said the cars in this region only get shipped with 3 levels of trim. Premium, premium plus which inlcludes nav, and Ul premium which adds the Mark levinson audio as well. there are a few extras as well, such as park assist.

So, the extras seem mild enough that I do not mind paying invoice, or slightly above, but my question is about when I get to the finance room.

My idea is that ONLY the destination charge and taxes are mandatory. The rest are all document fees, tags and license fees, and hopefully I will not see an "advertising fee", "dealer inventory tax fee" "deputy fee" "VIN glass etching fee" etc., but I have just bought a Lancer for my son, and sadly, the dealer thought these were all legitimate. Got most of them knocked down, or out, but still a hassle.

Any experiences as to finance office?

And to those who posted here......... tanks for your help. Without it I would not get the 300 over invoice for the Premium Plus, with nav that it looks like I will be picking up this week.

pumpkin

MD350

All TT&L should be manditory. Either you pay it to the dealer since they do your DMV work for you, or go stand in line yourself at the DMV and pay it. Etching is aftermarket, it is up to you if you want it or not. Many dealers etch all of their inventory prior to you walking in the door. Tell them to remove the charge or go somewhere else if you don't want it.

Processing fees vary from state to state, but are usually dealer profit. Nothing more than doing the paperwork, title work, etc. for you. Ask to have it removed, but chances are a dealer won't remove it. Some states are capped on processing fees. $100 in Maryland, $50 in West Virginia, etc. Others are a lot higher (Virginia $500+)

Anything else you would like to know?