Engine noise
10-31-07, 03:27 PM
#31
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Wow..... I thought a lot before replying to this.
I don't think anyone was really taking their service department to task on this. What I see is frustration by customers with a situation that is a design issue. It's too bad that Lexus, as a company, causes such pain for it's employees with the policy you indicated. Being on the front line in any business is not an easy task. I do understand the issues of customer sat, but holding front line employees responsible at a 1% margin for issues they have no control over, does not sound reasonable. Perhaps you should indicate that to Lexus instead holding it's customers responsible for how they feel. Since it's your employer, I would consider toning down the language a bit. Also you might consider that as a Lexus employee, your post is not a very good image for Lexus, and might just reinforce the negative image some of the folks here already have of the vehicle.
I was glad to read that the ES350 now has other than a timing belt. I suspect you meant they went back to a metal timing chain and that's the culprit causing the noise. There has been a lot of speculation on this in here.
I for one have no gripes with my Lexus service departments. I have used 2 different ones in the greater Boston area with good success. I wish I could say the same for 2 of the dealerships sales departments. I own 2 excellent vehicles. A 00 GS300 and the 07 ES350. Both are the best cars I have even owned in spite of a few issues with each.
As they say it's: "The PURSUIT of perfection". No one makes perfect car.
Cudos to Watertown Lexus as they have been outstanding in both respects so far.
I don't think anyone was really taking their service department to task on this. What I see is frustration by customers with a situation that is a design issue. It's too bad that Lexus, as a company, causes such pain for it's employees with the policy you indicated. Being on the front line in any business is not an easy task. I do understand the issues of customer sat, but holding front line employees responsible at a 1% margin for issues they have no control over, does not sound reasonable. Perhaps you should indicate that to Lexus instead holding it's customers responsible for how they feel. Since it's your employer, I would consider toning down the language a bit. Also you might consider that as a Lexus employee, your post is not a very good image for Lexus, and might just reinforce the negative image some of the folks here already have of the vehicle.
I was glad to read that the ES350 now has other than a timing belt. I suspect you meant they went back to a metal timing chain and that's the culprit causing the noise. There has been a lot of speculation on this in here.
I for one have no gripes with my Lexus service departments. I have used 2 different ones in the greater Boston area with good success. I wish I could say the same for 2 of the dealerships sales departments. I own 2 excellent vehicles. A 00 GS300 and the 07 ES350. Both are the best cars I have even owned in spite of a few issues with each.
As they say it's: "The PURSUIT of perfection". No one makes perfect car.
Cudos to Watertown Lexus as they have been outstanding in both respects so far.
10-31-07, 06:44 PM
#32
11-01-07, 03:48 AM
#33
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The Lexus line / service is no better than the other makes. Now I know why the service departments want to make sure you fill out the "surveys" with the best positive remarks and ratings! $$. At my Chevrolet and Jeep dealerships - absolutely! Lexus : as Borat says - "not so much".
11-05-07, 06:15 AM
#34
Lexus Champion
"Driven 5 & they all sound the same" what will it take to get some of you to accept it is as it was designed??? Do you know we're no longer using timing belts--saves you money on the major service, but guess what you sacrificed for saving that $650.00??
And a little hint for you that say "they must get $50 for everyone they send away" GROW T.F.U., what other job can you name where less than 1% of your customers can effect whether or not you'll actually receive your entire paycheck??? Every dealer out there ties 25-35% of every service advisor's,service manager's & general manager's check to CSI, I service over 3000 vehicles per month and it only takes 3 people to bone us on a survey out of spite to make sure the company keeps a fat portion of my check. This is a 2 way street, we don't address the issue when there is no problem to solve, but those of you the SCREW US ON THE SURVEY for not re-engineering your car to what can be unreasonable expections should know a couple of things. 1) Your survey is NOT anonymous - IF YOU SLAM ME, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!! 2) Most of us are graded on just 2 questions on your survey, Will you recommend this dealer? & will you return? DON"T SAY NO & THEN ASK FOR MY HELP,YOU JUST F*$#ED YOURSELF WITH ME & MY CREW. 3) If you don't think we're being up front with you, call 800-25LEXUS and tell them what's going on, but don't take it out on us.
We truely changed the way the car business treated people when we came on the scene and went from a question mark to the benchmark of this industry in product quality and customer service. Those of you who want to act like we are a backroad,sleazy fly-by-night bunch of crooks---I wonder how downright crappy your life was dealing with everyone else. Just a few words of advise, Loyalty pays in the long run w/Lexus, there are people with 150,000 miles on old RX & ES that are getting free engines put in their cars, not because there was a defect in the engine, but Lexus told them they only needed to changed their oil every 7500 miles & they sludged up. Now these people did all their services with their local dealer & Lexus stood behind the dealer and the customer. NAME ANOTHER CAR COMPANY THAT WOULD DO THAT___CAN"T THINK OF ONE CAN YOU??? And the other thing, don't F@#K with your service consultant's check - he / she has a family to feed too and although it's not fair their checks can be taxed like this, it is reality.
And a little hint for you that say "they must get $50 for everyone they send away" GROW T.F.U., what other job can you name where less than 1% of your customers can effect whether or not you'll actually receive your entire paycheck??? Every dealer out there ties 25-35% of every service advisor's,service manager's & general manager's check to CSI, I service over 3000 vehicles per month and it only takes 3 people to bone us on a survey out of spite to make sure the company keeps a fat portion of my check. This is a 2 way street, we don't address the issue when there is no problem to solve, but those of you the SCREW US ON THE SURVEY for not re-engineering your car to what can be unreasonable expections should know a couple of things. 1) Your survey is NOT anonymous - IF YOU SLAM ME, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!! 2) Most of us are graded on just 2 questions on your survey, Will you recommend this dealer? & will you return? DON"T SAY NO & THEN ASK FOR MY HELP,YOU JUST F*$#ED YOURSELF WITH ME & MY CREW. 3) If you don't think we're being up front with you, call 800-25LEXUS and tell them what's going on, but don't take it out on us.
We truely changed the way the car business treated people when we came on the scene and went from a question mark to the benchmark of this industry in product quality and customer service. Those of you who want to act like we are a backroad,sleazy fly-by-night bunch of crooks---I wonder how downright crappy your life was dealing with everyone else. Just a few words of advise, Loyalty pays in the long run w/Lexus, there are people with 150,000 miles on old RX & ES that are getting free engines put in their cars, not because there was a defect in the engine, but Lexus told them they only needed to changed their oil every 7500 miles & they sludged up. Now these people did all their services with their local dealer & Lexus stood behind the dealer and the customer. NAME ANOTHER CAR COMPANY THAT WOULD DO THAT___CAN"T THINK OF ONE CAN YOU??? And the other thing, don't F@#K with your service consultant's check - he / she has a family to feed too and although it's not fair their checks can be taxed like this, it is reality.
If you are telling people that the engine noise is as a result of a timing belt it is no wonder they "slam" you on a survey, people do not like being deceived and if it is you repeating something about a timing belt it is you they will hold accountable for being deceived.
Your claim you know who they are means nothing to people, they simply want a car that operates properly and not be fed some BS story about a timing belt or other story like the even worse claim the noise is due to direct fuel injection. Whether you know who they are or not makes no difference to them.
Loyalty does not pay with Lexus as you claim from my experiences with Lexus, I had owned 2 prior to my experience of 2 Lemon ES350 in a row and my prior "loyalty" meant nothing to Lexus corporate, lie after lie instead is what I received in an attempt by Lexus and it's dealers to leave me stuck in defective vehicles and I am far from alone in that experience. The quality issues with the ES were bad enough to experience, the outright and outrageous lies amplified it.
The knocking/tapping noise is an engine defect and when acknowledged or at least when customers are not fed BS on the subject maybe the scores on surveys will go up. Or when there is a TSIB issued for it as was done for LS460 owners, maybe then the scores will increase.
11-05-07, 01:20 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Howe about this - last year, I called my Lexus service department (part of a mega dealership in Wilkes Barre, PA) numerous times to coordinate the transmission fix / replacement. of our ES350 Never talked to a real person / always had to leave a voice mail with the recorded promise to return the call. They never did. Had to drive over and report / work with service.
Received a recall notice on our 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee on the brakes. Called Jeep service at this same mega dealership, left a messsage requesting a service appointment. Received the call back within an hour.
Received a recall notice on our 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee on the brakes. Called Jeep service at this same mega dealership, left a messsage requesting a service appointment. Received the call back within an hour.
11-05-07, 04:47 PM
#36
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If you are telling people that the engine noise is as a result of a timing belt it is no wonder they "slam" you on a survey, people do not like being deceived and if it is you repeating something about a timing belt it is you they will hold accountable for being deceived.
Your claim you know who they are means nothing to people, they simply want a car that operates properly and not be fed some BS story about a timing belt or other story like the even worse claim the noise is due to direct fuel injection. Whether you know who they are or not makes no difference to them.
Loyalty does not pay with Lexus as you claim from my experiences with Lexus, I had owned 2 prior to my experience of 2 Lemon ES350 in a row and my prior "loyalty" meant nothing to Lexus corporate, lie after lie instead is what I received in an attempt by Lexus and it's dealers to leave me stuck in defective vehicles and I am far from alone in that experience. The quality issues with the ES were bad enough to experience, the outright and outrageous lies amplified it.
The knocking/tapping noise is an engine defect and when acknowledged or at least when customers are not fed BS on the subject maybe the scores on surveys will go up. Or when there is a TSIB issued for it as was done for LS460 owners, maybe then the scores will increase.
Your claim you know who they are means nothing to people, they simply want a car that operates properly and not be fed some BS story about a timing belt or other story like the even worse claim the noise is due to direct fuel injection. Whether you know who they are or not makes no difference to them.
Loyalty does not pay with Lexus as you claim from my experiences with Lexus, I had owned 2 prior to my experience of 2 Lemon ES350 in a row and my prior "loyalty" meant nothing to Lexus corporate, lie after lie instead is what I received in an attempt by Lexus and it's dealers to leave me stuck in defective vehicles and I am far from alone in that experience. The quality issues with the ES were bad enough to experience, the outright and outrageous lies amplified it.
The knocking/tapping noise is an engine defect and when acknowledged or at least when customers are not fed BS on the subject maybe the scores on surveys will go up. Or when there is a TSIB issued for it as was done for LS460 owners, maybe then the scores will increase.
11-07-07, 06:41 AM
#37
Lexus Champion
11-07-07, 06:57 PM
#38
11-07-07, 07:15 PM
#39
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The ES350 has a noisy engine like the IS250 and IS350, the noise you are hearing is a high pressure fuel pump that is increasing fuel pressure as high as 1900 psi for the direct injection. Some may be experiencing cold start knock that may be the same noise as the IS cars, which are recieving cam gears, a possible fix may be on the way for the ES cars. The next 16 months will be tough for customers and techs. Toyota and Lexus will be releasing 20 new models.
11-08-07, 04:22 AM
#41
Lexus Champion
The ES350 has a noisy engine like the IS250 and IS350, the noise you are hearing is a high pressure fuel pump that is increasing fuel pressure as high as 1900 psi for the direct injection. Some may be experiencing cold start knock that may be the same noise as the IS cars, which are recieving cam gears, a possible fix may be on the way for the ES cars. The next 16 months will be tough for customers and techs. Toyota and Lexus will be releasing 20 new models.
That is one of two stories owners are told by Lexus to try to make them go away with their engine knock issue, the other story is the timing belt story.
In contrast LS 460 owners were issued a TSIB for valve repair to correct improper valve lash causing the knocking sound when they complained about the SAME thing. You can read the LS TSIB by going to LS forum and review thread subject of TSIB issued for LS.
11-08-07, 08:10 PM
#42
Do what i do, use Tufoil. Tufoil knocks the knock out
11-08-07, 10:15 PM
#43
In recent months I have rented two different Toyota Avalons from Hertz with the 2GR-FE engine and one ticked and the other was silent. So I am now convinced the 2GR-FE can be a quiet engine if the valvetrain is set up correctly.
11-09-07, 07:55 AM
#44
I just want to clarify that this knock only occurs in drive and when you are accelerating. If the car is idling in park, sitting in drive at a stop, or coasting in drive, there is no noise.
11-10-07, 06:56 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
Bob, I saw that TSIB and I now agree with you the ticking noise in some ES350's motors is likely due to valve lash adjusters that are presumably allowing the valve lash to get a bit too wide, especially when the engine is cold. Or it could be the lash adjusters themselves were not manufactured to a thickness standard the valvetrain needs to stay quiet at all times. In any case, the good news is that a slightly loose valve clearance doesm't cause any measurable wear or mechanical damage to the engine. So that may be the underlying reason why Lexus has been slow to issue a TSIB (after all, the fix may require Lexus to have thousands of new replacement lash adjusters manufactured to an exacting fit tolerance standard).
In recent months I have rented two different Toyota Avalons from Hertz with the 2GR-FE engine and one ticked and the other was silent. So I am now convinced the 2GR-FE can be a quiet engine if the valvetrain is set up correctly.
In recent months I have rented two different Toyota Avalons from Hertz with the 2GR-FE engine and one ticked and the other was silent. So I am now convinced the 2GR-FE can be a quiet engine if the valvetrain is set up correctly.
SWO...Actually improper valve lash does cause damage/wear, google valve lash and you will see what it does. I did drive 1 ES350 of 5 where they had the valves set correctly and yes it was quiet so it is possible to do it right.
The noise alone in a 35K car is absurd and the excuses and stories given by Lexus and it's dealers to cover it up make it even worse.
MD...mine too was in D mode just as the LS TSIB reads.