codex57

I wonder if TSB BR004-006 will fix it? There's an updated one as of Nov. 6, 2007. Replaced the old TSB of the same number.

garsarno

I think it would be simpler and easier if they did a general recall and replaced the transmissions with an updated version that worked. Once they had gotten over that, I could move on and complain about something else.

MD350

I hope this is "the fix". But, will wait to hear for some positive results.

MD350

I agree, but they can't because they don't have a fix!

garsarno

It's almost the year 2008 - it's a shame a transmission can't be designed that could out be more reliable than a GM Turbohydramatic or even a Powerglide.

carma350

I'm thinking of buying a 2008 ES 350 and have read the transmission flare discussions on different websites. I wouldn't want to venture a guess as to what the chance is of getting a ES 350 with a flare problem: 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%? If the ES 350 has a flare problem, what is the chance of it being a severe problem vs. a minor nuisance: 0.01%, 1%, 10%, 90%? I've read about other problems afflicting the ES 350 such as engine knocks, interior rattling noises, and wind noise. I'm sure the ES 350 has some minor problems too but those are the major ones I can recall. The easy answer for the potential buyer is to cross off Lexus from the list. Why take the chance?

The ES 350 was easily my #1 choice in terms of features and value. I was attracted to the Lexus brand because my impression was that Toyota and Honda generally make the highest-quality under-$40K cars in the world. What would make more sense than buying from Toyota's "luxury" division? Car magazine journalists regularly write about "legendary Lexus quality." Which leads to a contradiction: Why does Toyota have such a stellar quality reputation even though it has had ongoing FWD transaxle problems since 1999? Why can't Toyota figure this out? Shouldn't Toyota thoroughly test pre-production models instead of making its customers responsible for quality assurance? Replaced transmissions, buybacks, amazing.

It's hard to figure out the precise truth and a manufacturer is probably going to avoid transparency in this kind of situation, so I think I should move on to other makes and models. Any suggestions for FWD alternatives to the 2008 ES 350?

codex57

Acura TL? I ruled it out as it's gonna be replaced next year.

I'm sorta stuck. My wife and I went thru every single luxury car maker. Couldn't think of a better alternative.

Test drive an ES and decide for yourself how much of an annoyance is the flare. I'm still deciding. It might bother me more in that I know it's there and I expect it not to be than it affecting one of the 5 senses. I couldn't feel the flares happening. I just saw the rpms spike. If I didn't have my eye on the tachometer, I wouldn't have noticed the car flaring.

Oh, and don't knock all GM trannies. I'm not a fan overall, but my BMW had a GM tranny and that thing was smoooootthhh. My Honda truck's transmission is way clunkier than that GM transmission.

garsarno

Friends of ours chose the BMW 5 series AWD as their alternative to the
ES350 after hearing the cold engine noise / transmission flare woes.

ES350Bob

There is virtually no way you can decide if you can tolerate the transmission slipping...aka flare...from a test drive. Don't allow yourself to make a transmission decision from a test drive as to your ability to tolerate it, except that if you see it slipping it is obvious to pass on the vehicle.

Even if you do not see it on a test drive, that is no guarantee it will not start slipping soon after you buy it.

In order to have a real chance to experience it, the car must not have been cranked for at least 4 hours before you get in to start it yourself for your test drive, then drive it, in order for you to even have a chance to experience it slipping.

You will see, hear and feel a slip, though in the excitement of a first test drive it may not register or not if it is initially milder depending on accel rate when it happens. The faster the accel rate, usually the more severe the slip.

The same for engine knocking that lasts for several minutes/miles, cold soaked car for 4 hours or more, get in, crank it, put it in drive and listen.

MD350

I owned an 04 TL prior to this ES. I do miss some things about that car, but I do enjoy many features the ES offers as well. The two cars ride totally different. The TL is sporty. It is also smaller. It handles better, but you feel the road.

As to the chance of having a tranny flare, I feel your chances are very high to have the minor flare (200 rpm or less). Mine just flared this morning as I took my daughter to school. But, you asked the million dollar question...do you pass on the car and look somewhere else? That is a decision that you will have to make....no one else can do that for you. But, you are walking in educated and realize there will be no surprises.

carma350

Why do you feel the chances of having a tranny flare on a 2008 ES are very high? Has Toyota released stats?

Based on the forums, it sounds like the issues regarding the ES mostly have to do with annoyance levels. But since we're talking powertrain, could the ES transmission / engine problems possibly develop over time into safety problems? Have these powertrain problems caused any accidents for ES owners?

I'm holding onto a glimmer of hope that I can still confidently buy the ES. For me, it boils down to whether the ES issues in sum are major or minor (comparable to problems experienced with any new car). I need to learn more about the extent of the powertrain issues. I'm also beginning to look into any quality issues that exist for the other cars that I'm considering.

MD350

I feel your chances are high because the dealer has told me that it is normal operation. If minor flares are normal, than your chances are high in getting a car that does it. I have driven about 5 or 6 different loaners (all 07s) and they all flared one way or another. You are right, it depends on the driver's annoyance levels. I am very particular about my car, I am the guy that washes it once a week, checks for door dings, the interior looks like new, etc. The guy who has brake dust all over his front wheels, has scuffs on the bumper, and trash on the floor is not going to care about or notice a flare. To them, a car is a means of transportation and as long as it gets from point A to point B, that is all that matters.

I have not heard about any accidents or transmission failure due to this issue. It is pure annoyance. However, there is no data on long term damage to the tranny. But, that is what a warranty is for.

The ES is not going to leave you on the side of the road.

carma350

I guess I can deal with minor flares. I wonder whether a flare has ever caused an ES to lurch forward on its own, or to hesitate when the driver hits the gas. If the powertrain performs properly and the only thing noticeable is a minor occasional tach spike, that sounds acceptable to me. Thanks for the inside info.

ES350Bob

It does both, hesitate and jerk/surge and the powertrain is not operating properly when this happens.

If you want to duplicate this in your own car you have now regardless of who made it as long as it has an automatic transmission: Put it in neutral at a stop, notice the normal at a stop value of the RPM, then add gas until the RPM increases by 800 RPM or more beyond what it otherwise was at idle and then immediately place it into drive.

That simulates what happens with a slipping transmission. You could also simulate an under significant accel slip by increasing RPM by 2,000 plus and shove it into drive as though you are on entry to expressway ramp or pulling out in a line of traffic.

Ask your family and friends if when new car shopping they would live with a transmission that slips every now and then in a minor way.

MD350

The worst feeling I ever had was that it felt like someone engaged the clutch on a manual transmission as you were accelerating, then let off the clutch within a second. I know when mine flares, and I don't even have to be looking at the tach. I feel it.