Another Transmission goes to Heaven
01-04-08, 09:22 PM
#76
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Maybe Lexus should have never designed a transmision that "learns" and simply left the driving mode decision to the drivers...who have infinite descretion. Lexus tried to get too cute here. If they had left well enough alone, I suspect we would never have had these transmission woes.
01-04-08, 10:32 PM
#77
Learning transmission ECU's have been around for quite a while. They work very well as a rule. I do not think the flair issues are relatied to the learning mode, more a product of flaws in the software/solenoids.
01-05-08, 04:13 AM
#78
Lexus Champion
Ok gentlemen, here we go ....
I brought the car in last night and was going over the issues with the service writer. He exclaims...I'm glad your here and hands my paperwork with my detailed accounting of the types of issues I was having with the transmission to another gentleman.
I asked him, "are you the transmission expert?". The service writer said not exactly, but he knows alot about these cars.
After describing both issues (the cold revving and the getting lost issue) to the other guy, his thought was that it is "electronically related". Specifically, the "transmission compensation values". From what I had researched, basically the transmission can "self adjust" somewhat on its own based on wear characteristics, etc so it continues to run in a consistent fashion as the miles progress. He thought some of these values might not be where they should be.
I would have thought this was taken care of with the updated transmission flash, but he made it seem it was a slightly different thing.
In any case, I left them to it.
I spoke with the service writer later in the day... he said they checked the fluid level and it was fine.
The work order said "found transmission compensation values were off. Adjusted transmission compensation values"
Now the results: (tranny was warm)
For the moment, the "coming out of the rights turn hesistation" (getting lost) appears to be gone.
Of course, time will tell.
Cannot comment on the cold issue as of yet.
Did not think electronic trannies could be adjusted in this fashion so if there are any experts out there, please chime in !!
I brought the car in last night and was going over the issues with the service writer. He exclaims...I'm glad your here and hands my paperwork with my detailed accounting of the types of issues I was having with the transmission to another gentleman.
I asked him, "are you the transmission expert?". The service writer said not exactly, but he knows alot about these cars.
After describing both issues (the cold revving and the getting lost issue) to the other guy, his thought was that it is "electronically related". Specifically, the "transmission compensation values". From what I had researched, basically the transmission can "self adjust" somewhat on its own based on wear characteristics, etc so it continues to run in a consistent fashion as the miles progress. He thought some of these values might not be where they should be.
I would have thought this was taken care of with the updated transmission flash, but he made it seem it was a slightly different thing.
In any case, I left them to it.
I spoke with the service writer later in the day... he said they checked the fluid level and it was fine.
The work order said "found transmission compensation values were off. Adjusted transmission compensation values"
Now the results: (tranny was warm)
For the moment, the "coming out of the rights turn hesistation" (getting lost) appears to be gone.
Of course, time will tell.
Cannot comment on the cold issue as of yet.
Did not think electronic trannies could be adjusted in this fashion so if there are any experts out there, please chime in !!
NJ,
As part of your trans replacement, they were to have input new compensation code, it is listed as a step in the TSIB for replacement.
Maybe, they stopped just short of admitting to you that they made a mistake and forgot to input the new code, or something else is going on.
I sincerely hope it holds up for you, but you know my view of these transmissions.
01-05-08, 01:27 PM
#79
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Maybe Lexus should have never designed a transmision that "learns" and simply left the driving mode decision to the drivers...who have infinite descretion. Lexus tried to get too cute here. If they had left well enough alone, I suspect we would never have had these transmission woes.
Would have been quite an engineering feat to make something more technically advanced and complicated, yet do it with fewer parts than existing lower tech models.
01-05-08, 02:32 PM
#80
I've been told, by those with more mechanical knowledge than me, that the problem was Lexus made a more complicated transmission, but reduced parts by about 25% in order to increase fuel mileage (in part by making it lighter) and less chance of failure (fewer parts so less to go wrong). Obviously, it's failed miserably on that second part.
Would have been quite an engineering feat to make something more technically advanced and complicated, yet do it with fewer parts than existing lower tech models.
Would have been quite an engineering feat to make something more technically advanced and complicated, yet do it with fewer parts than existing lower tech models.
01-05-08, 05:06 PM
#81
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Well, a little more on the driving impressions...
It's warmed up here in the northeast.
This morning at about 32 degrees outside, the transmission did not seem to show any cold related strangeness. Not as cold as it had been over the past few days though (15f to 20f)
As far as the hesitation around right hand turns, it "appears" to be gone.
I'm really at a bit of a crossroads here.
I really like the car and if I knew for sure (other than death and taxes) that the tranny would hold up, I'd be fine with keeping it.
Back in the day, I had a 2001 Acura TL where the tranny went at 12500 miles. After it was replaced, I got rid of the car. At that time, if you fought a bit with Acura, they would give you a 7yr/100k warranty. Of course, later on they gave the 7 yr warranty to everyone without asking which included my cousin with a 2000 Accord which didn't even have the 5 speed tranny.
You're all going to laugh, but I even today looked at a Hyundai VeraCruz. You know what... it was damn nice ! They of course give you a 5yr 60k bumper to bumper and a 10 yr/100k drivetrain warranty. This thing had everything including DVD system, 600 watt Infinity Stereo, Power rear lift gate.
All for around $36k. An equally equipped RX350 would sticker for about 43-44k easy. I would have maybe even thought about an RX, but they have tranny issues of their own.
Wilbuuuuuur, buy a horse ! (Mr Ed. flashback)
It's warmed up here in the northeast.
This morning at about 32 degrees outside, the transmission did not seem to show any cold related strangeness. Not as cold as it had been over the past few days though (15f to 20f)
As far as the hesitation around right hand turns, it "appears" to be gone.
I'm really at a bit of a crossroads here.
I really like the car and if I knew for sure (other than death and taxes) that the tranny would hold up, I'd be fine with keeping it.
Back in the day, I had a 2001 Acura TL where the tranny went at 12500 miles. After it was replaced, I got rid of the car. At that time, if you fought a bit with Acura, they would give you a 7yr/100k warranty. Of course, later on they gave the 7 yr warranty to everyone without asking which included my cousin with a 2000 Accord which didn't even have the 5 speed tranny.
You're all going to laugh, but I even today looked at a Hyundai VeraCruz. You know what... it was damn nice ! They of course give you a 5yr 60k bumper to bumper and a 10 yr/100k drivetrain warranty. This thing had everything including DVD system, 600 watt Infinity Stereo, Power rear lift gate.
All for around $36k. An equally equipped RX350 would sticker for about 43-44k easy. I would have maybe even thought about an RX, but they have tranny issues of their own.
Wilbuuuuuur, buy a horse ! (Mr Ed. flashback)
01-05-08, 06:03 PM
#82
Well, a little more on the driving impressions...
It's warmed up here in the northeast.
This morning at about 32 degrees outside, the transmission did not seem to show any cold related strangeness. Not as cold as it had been over the past few days though (15f to 20f)
As far as the hesitation around right hand turns, it "appears" to be gone.
I'm really at a bit of a crossroads here.
I really like the car and if I knew for sure (other than death and taxes) that the tranny would hold up, I'd be fine with keeping it.
Back in the day, I had a 2001 Acura TL where the tranny went at 12500 miles. After it was replaced, I got rid of the car. At that time, if you fought a bit with Acura, they would give you a 7yr/100k warranty. Of course, later on they gave the 7 yr warranty to everyone without asking which included my cousin with a 2000 Accord which didn't even have the 5 speed tranny.
You're all going to laugh, but I even today looked at a Hyundai VeraCruz. You know what... it was damn nice ! They of course give you a 5yr 60k bumper to bumper and a 10 yr/100k drivetrain warranty. This thing had everything including DVD system, 600 watt Infinity Stereo, Power rear lift gate.
All for around $36k. An equally equipped RX350 would sticker for about 43-44k easy. I would have maybe even thought about an RX, but they have tranny issues of their own.
Wilbuuuuuur, buy a horse ! (Mr Ed. flashback)
It's warmed up here in the northeast.
This morning at about 32 degrees outside, the transmission did not seem to show any cold related strangeness. Not as cold as it had been over the past few days though (15f to 20f)
As far as the hesitation around right hand turns, it "appears" to be gone.
I'm really at a bit of a crossroads here.
I really like the car and if I knew for sure (other than death and taxes) that the tranny would hold up, I'd be fine with keeping it.
Back in the day, I had a 2001 Acura TL where the tranny went at 12500 miles. After it was replaced, I got rid of the car. At that time, if you fought a bit with Acura, they would give you a 7yr/100k warranty. Of course, later on they gave the 7 yr warranty to everyone without asking which included my cousin with a 2000 Accord which didn't even have the 5 speed tranny.
You're all going to laugh, but I even today looked at a Hyundai VeraCruz. You know what... it was damn nice ! They of course give you a 5yr 60k bumper to bumper and a 10 yr/100k drivetrain warranty. This thing had everything including DVD system, 600 watt Infinity Stereo, Power rear lift gate.
All for around $36k. An equally equipped RX350 would sticker for about 43-44k easy. I would have maybe even thought about an RX, but they have tranny issues of their own.
Wilbuuuuuur, buy a horse ! (Mr Ed. flashback)
01-05-08, 09:20 PM
#83
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In other words "there ain't no free lunch". Amazing that a technological and sophisticated global organization as Lexus/ Toyota has trouble accepting this basic fact of life!
01-06-08, 05:58 AM
#84
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I even test drove the VeraCruz... if you didn't know it was a Hyundai it could be mistaken for a Lexus.
It was very quiet, very smooth, had good pep.
Just worried about trading one set of problems (tranny) for another although the VeraCruz has gotten very good reviews.
I also looked at an RDX from the dealer I originally bought my 2001 tl from. They were a good service dealer. It drove very well and was fun to drive. However, when we started crunching the numbers, they only wanted to give me 26k for my car. I laughed alot and said your used car manager blew the potential deal for you.
Funny how the I spoke with the Hyundai dealer and after a little back and forth was willing to give me 29k for the car which is alot closer to reality.
The Acura dealer was on crack !
I could get an 08 VeraCruz with Ultimate package for like 36200 on a 38300Msrp which is about 500 over invoice.
Like I said, if I knew the ES350 would hold up, I'd keep it.
If not, I might be inlcined to get rid of it now although for the moment it appears to be running ok.
Any thoughts?
It was very quiet, very smooth, had good pep.
Just worried about trading one set of problems (tranny) for another although the VeraCruz has gotten very good reviews.
I also looked at an RDX from the dealer I originally bought my 2001 tl from. They were a good service dealer. It drove very well and was fun to drive. However, when we started crunching the numbers, they only wanted to give me 26k for my car. I laughed alot and said your used car manager blew the potential deal for you.
Funny how the I spoke with the Hyundai dealer and after a little back and forth was willing to give me 29k for the car which is alot closer to reality.
The Acura dealer was on crack !
I could get an 08 VeraCruz with Ultimate package for like 36200 on a 38300Msrp which is about 500 over invoice.
Like I said, if I knew the ES350 would hold up, I'd keep it.
If not, I might be inlcined to get rid of it now although for the moment it appears to be running ok.
Any thoughts?
01-06-08, 06:09 AM
#85
I even test drove the VeraCruz... if you didn't know it was a Hyundai it could be mistaken for a Lexus.
It was very quiet, very smooth, had good pep.
Just worried about trading one set of problems (tranny) for another although the VeraCruz has gotten very good reviews.
I also looked at an RDX from the dealer I originally bought my 2001 tl from. They were a good service dealer. It drove very well and was fun to drive. However, when we started crunching the numbers, they only wanted to give me 26k for my car. I laughed alot and said your used car manager blew the potential deal for you.
Funny how the I spoke with the Hyundai dealer and after a little back and forth was willing to give me 29k for the car which is alot closer to reality.
The Acura dealer was on crack !
I could get an 08 VeraCruz with Ultimate package for like 36200 on a 38300Msrp which is about 500 over invoice.
Like I said, if I knew the ES350 would hold up, I'd keep it.
If not, I might be inlcined to get rid of it now although for the moment it appears to be running ok.
Any thoughts?
It was very quiet, very smooth, had good pep.
Just worried about trading one set of problems (tranny) for another although the VeraCruz has gotten very good reviews.
I also looked at an RDX from the dealer I originally bought my 2001 tl from. They were a good service dealer. It drove very well and was fun to drive. However, when we started crunching the numbers, they only wanted to give me 26k for my car. I laughed alot and said your used car manager blew the potential deal for you.
Funny how the I spoke with the Hyundai dealer and after a little back and forth was willing to give me 29k for the car which is alot closer to reality.
The Acura dealer was on crack !
I could get an 08 VeraCruz with Ultimate package for like 36200 on a 38300Msrp which is about 500 over invoice.
Like I said, if I knew the ES350 would hold up, I'd keep it.
If not, I might be inlcined to get rid of it now although for the moment it appears to be running ok.
Any thoughts?
My opinion, if it is running ok, drive it another year. It won't depreciate much more, after that initial hit. You are under warranty, so if anything happens you won't pay a dime.
01-06-08, 06:13 AM
#86
Lexus Champion
NJ,
If you really like it and you feel you are getting a good deal....Go for it and don't look back.
Ons said it best...there is far more to life than making a service appointment or even worrying you may have to or waiting for a fix, or wondering about or thinking about.......fill in the blank.
At least with the Veracruz you could worry about such things while also enjoying a "new car experience"
If you really like it and you feel you are getting a good deal....Go for it and don't look back.
Ons said it best...there is far more to life than making a service appointment or even worrying you may have to or waiting for a fix, or wondering about or thinking about.......fill in the blank.
At least with the Veracruz you could worry about such things while also enjoying a "new car experience"
01-06-08, 07:11 AM
#88
Lexus Champion
While I did get a check from Honda due to lower MSRP I still lost money on top of the negative experiences, BUT I have to say that not hearing that knocking engine alone several times a day offsets in my mind 1,200 dollars of that hit.
I had the same concerns NJ has right now...the what if this new vehicle develops a serious problem too, then what...I took the risk and the hit to get away from the daily issues of the ES and the abominable lack of integrity demonstrated to me as an otherwise decade plus loyal Lexus buyer realizing it was the Lexus experience that fueled the what if in the first place so it was unfair to...pick any automaker...to worry about what ifs when it was not their product that had me spooked about it.
01-06-08, 07:28 AM
#89
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thanks for all your input.
Have to say the used car value between the ACURA dealer and the HYUNDAI dealer really cracked me up. Guess the Hyundai dealer wanted my business more.
Think I'll probably drive my ES350 for a little while longer and see how it holds up. However, if any more crap surfaces with the tranny , I will end up selling it pronto.
Have to say the used car value between the ACURA dealer and the HYUNDAI dealer really cracked me up. Guess the Hyundai dealer wanted my business more.
Think I'll probably drive my ES350 for a little while longer and see how it holds up. However, if any more crap surfaces with the tranny , I will end up selling it pronto.
01-06-08, 08:11 AM
#90
Thanks for all your input.
Have to say the used car value between the ACURA dealer and the HYUNDAI dealer really cracked me up. Guess the Hyundai dealer wanted my business more.
Think I'll probably drive my ES350 for a little while longer and see how it holds up. However, if any more crap surfaces with the tranny , I will end up selling it pronto.
Have to say the used car value between the ACURA dealer and the HYUNDAI dealer really cracked me up. Guess the Hyundai dealer wanted my business more.
Think I'll probably drive my ES350 for a little while longer and see how it holds up. However, if any more crap surfaces with the tranny , I will end up selling it pronto.
There are some local Lexus dealers selling Non-Nav units with about 10K miles on them for about $32K. They might be loaner cars taken out of the fleet.