superchan7

I feel the ES is a bit metrosexual but that's the way many males like it. To be more manly (i.e. more power) we can move to the GS, which I also like but it was beyond my first-car budget.

For its target market, one ES is plenty. 272hp isn't exactly stale.

codex57

Lexus has a hard enough time differentiating the ES from the Camry. Offering a lower engine blurs the line even more. Most Camry's sold are with the smaller 4 cyl engine. Since the base price of the ES (and that's without leather) is more than the price of a fully loaded Camry, you don't want an engine smaller than the big boy Camry engine. It's already bad enough that they share the same engine and transmission. You don't want to make things worse by adding something less than what you get on a Camry. Totally ruins the prestige and exclusitivity factor which allows Toyota to charge more for an ES than the Camry.

The IS doesn't have a nearly identical Toyota model in North America. So, it's ok to have the 2.5L engine since there's no danger of cannibalizing sales.

jgtile

Regarding the GS, yep it has 303 hp and has a "meaner look". I actually liked the inside and outside styling of the GS better than the ES. And I agree with you Superchan7 that it was more than I wanted to spend....but, the biggest issues I had was:
a. the trunk was about 3 cu ft smaller than the ES due to the AWD(not good for us golfers), and,
b. the drivers' floor had a large bump in the floor that interfered with my driving (again for the AWD).

With the extra cost and the less room (even the back seat had less room), even though I could afford it, I felt that it wasn't worth the money. With VSC and ESC on the ES, that works just as good as AWD in my opinion. Just thought I would add this if anyone was thinking about the GS.....!

codex57

Yeah, I considered the GS too. Had the blend of sportiness and comfort I was looking for and was bigger than the IS (which I swear is smaller than the already compact 3 series and C class). It was only 2 grand more for a GS with nav than my ES. Loved those seats and the extra speed. Plus, it had the color I really wanted.

But I really needed every square inch of interior and trunk room I could get. The smaller trunk and back seat were deal breakers.

jgtile

Codex57, I agree with 100%; that's what broke the deal with me (wanted the space...but you know, the 272 hp really picks up well...not sure the extra 31 hp made too much of a difference). The GS was quoted to me for about $5000 more (fully loaded) than the ES....hmmmm.