ES loaner and commentary
01-10-10, 03:02 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
ES loaner and commentary
While my 2008 IS is in for some work, the dealership provided me with a Smokey Granite Mica 2009 ES350. The odometer reads 12k miles and the car seems to be in very good condition. Having tested one out around a track two years ago, I had been wanting to drive it under normal conditions for some time. My overall impression so far is extremely positive. Coming out of the sportier IS line into this required very little adjusting. I thought the suspension would be floaty like I have read in many forums, but I don't see where people get that from. The car feels buttoned down for all normal driving conditions. Obviously it's not designed to carve corners, so the bill fits well.
In comparison to my IS250, the engine is very potent. It's tempting digging your foot into it, but I am more into trying to keep the mileage numbers high. Speaking of those, I am averaging 28 mpg on mostly highway driving. VERY IMPRESSIVE for all that horsepower! This engine is a gem and I wish I could have afforded it in my IS. It's also far quieter in the morning when cold. However, transmission shifts just a tad rougher at any time throughout the day compared to my IS. The gear shifter though flows easier and makes less noise when moving up and down.
Some other points. The interior roof lighting is far nicer than in my IS. Mine only has two mood lights that barely light things up, but the ES is loaded with a row of LED's that are activated when the door opens. I don't know why they skipped this feature with the IS.
Also, the trip computer is much better, with the outside temp always on the display. Not so with the IS. But one thing with the IS display is the graphics are larger making them easier to read. The ES also has a trip timer, which I don't think the IS has.
The seats are very comfortable for longer trips, but lack side support while cornering. Again, wasn't expecting them to be sporty. The center console is huge inside compared to the IS and I love the closure feature. Seat heaters are hidden though, not sure how that passed the engineer test. They also do not warm as much as my IS. Homelink buttons are lost somewhere on the ceiling, I prefer them on the mirror where you know they are always sitting. I guess that is something one would get used to and memorize with ownership. Also notice the homelink signal is stronger and opens gates faster in the ES compared to my IS.
Also like the exterior lock botton on ALL doors. Only having it on the driver's door with the IS is a pain when you are cleaning the car and need to get in and out a lot. I did however feel the trunk opening mechanism felt cheaper. You lift up the trunk and the thing swings right up without any control. With the IS, you have to guide it up as it resists some movement. Probably another thing one would get used to with ownership.
What else? The tailpipe tips are thicker here, which would look good on the IS. I've also struggled getting used to the auto tilt-away steering wheel. While a great idea, I find myself anchored on the wheel trying to get out of the car while it's still moving up. Can't be good for the wheel! Maybe it should move faster or I should move slower. Not sure how I'd fix that one.
Love the wood wheel. Wish the IS had it. But don't like the steering wheel buttons all being the same. On the IS the +'s stick out and the -'s are depressed, so you can tell which buttons you are on just by feel. I haven't caught on to these yet w/o having to look at them.
The Nav is cool, but is there a way to keep the radio station showing while having the map on? Map is my default, but you can't see what station is playing. Maybe there's a setting? Also ran into an issue with the wipers going on without my permission. A smeared window was the result. I know these are auto wipers and I am sure there is a way to shut them off. I'll check in the morning.
One negative is I can't raise the seat high enough. I'm 5'7" and I feel like I am sitting in a tub. While not a big problem, it's hard to see the front corners of the car when making turns around corners. If the seat went up just a hair more, it would solve the problem. Also didn't like the long reach pulling the door closed when inside. Needs a door pull like the IS.
That's about it. The car is super quiet (which I like), very fast, gets impressive mileage, and handles better than I expected around turns. I can see why this car sells so well to so many people. It does just about everything right and looks great doing it. I would seriously consider one in the future!
In comparison to my IS250, the engine is very potent. It's tempting digging your foot into it, but I am more into trying to keep the mileage numbers high. Speaking of those, I am averaging 28 mpg on mostly highway driving. VERY IMPRESSIVE for all that horsepower! This engine is a gem and I wish I could have afforded it in my IS. It's also far quieter in the morning when cold. However, transmission shifts just a tad rougher at any time throughout the day compared to my IS. The gear shifter though flows easier and makes less noise when moving up and down.
Some other points. The interior roof lighting is far nicer than in my IS. Mine only has two mood lights that barely light things up, but the ES is loaded with a row of LED's that are activated when the door opens. I don't know why they skipped this feature with the IS.
Also, the trip computer is much better, with the outside temp always on the display. Not so with the IS. But one thing with the IS display is the graphics are larger making them easier to read. The ES also has a trip timer, which I don't think the IS has.
The seats are very comfortable for longer trips, but lack side support while cornering. Again, wasn't expecting them to be sporty. The center console is huge inside compared to the IS and I love the closure feature. Seat heaters are hidden though, not sure how that passed the engineer test. They also do not warm as much as my IS. Homelink buttons are lost somewhere on the ceiling, I prefer them on the mirror where you know they are always sitting. I guess that is something one would get used to and memorize with ownership. Also notice the homelink signal is stronger and opens gates faster in the ES compared to my IS.
Also like the exterior lock botton on ALL doors. Only having it on the driver's door with the IS is a pain when you are cleaning the car and need to get in and out a lot. I did however feel the trunk opening mechanism felt cheaper. You lift up the trunk and the thing swings right up without any control. With the IS, you have to guide it up as it resists some movement. Probably another thing one would get used to with ownership.
What else? The tailpipe tips are thicker here, which would look good on the IS. I've also struggled getting used to the auto tilt-away steering wheel. While a great idea, I find myself anchored on the wheel trying to get out of the car while it's still moving up. Can't be good for the wheel! Maybe it should move faster or I should move slower. Not sure how I'd fix that one.
Love the wood wheel. Wish the IS had it. But don't like the steering wheel buttons all being the same. On the IS the +'s stick out and the -'s are depressed, so you can tell which buttons you are on just by feel. I haven't caught on to these yet w/o having to look at them.
The Nav is cool, but is there a way to keep the radio station showing while having the map on? Map is my default, but you can't see what station is playing. Maybe there's a setting? Also ran into an issue with the wipers going on without my permission. A smeared window was the result. I know these are auto wipers and I am sure there is a way to shut them off. I'll check in the morning.
One negative is I can't raise the seat high enough. I'm 5'7" and I feel like I am sitting in a tub. While not a big problem, it's hard to see the front corners of the car when making turns around corners. If the seat went up just a hair more, it would solve the problem. Also didn't like the long reach pulling the door closed when inside. Needs a door pull like the IS.
That's about it. The car is super quiet (which I like), very fast, gets impressive mileage, and handles better than I expected around turns. I can see why this car sells so well to so many people. It does just about everything right and looks great doing it. I would seriously consider one in the future!
01-10-10, 03:59 AM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
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There is a setting in one of the menus to keep the radio display on and not transition back to the navigation automatically.
Push the wiper stalk all the way up to turn off the rain sensing wipers.
Top position - Single Wipe
Second position - Rain Sensing mode
Third position - Low (not rain sensing)
Fourth position - High (not rain sensing)
Spray - Pull back on stalk (washes window, wipes. Waits a few seconds then wipes one last time to catch any drips)
The rain sensing wipers get VERY annoying in light rain, when there isn't enough rain to trigger a wipe, but not enough to warrant putting the wipers on low. I find myself manually wiping every minute or so in those conditions. Very stupid design since they left out any traditional intermittent wiping mode. If they added one more option, perhaps call it "Slow" to wipe every minute or so, I'd be happy.
Push the wiper stalk all the way up to turn off the rain sensing wipers.
Top position - Single Wipe
Second position - Rain Sensing mode
Third position - Low (not rain sensing)
Fourth position - High (not rain sensing)
Spray - Pull back on stalk (washes window, wipes. Waits a few seconds then wipes one last time to catch any drips)
The rain sensing wipers get VERY annoying in light rain, when there isn't enough rain to trigger a wipe, but not enough to warrant putting the wipers on low. I find myself manually wiping every minute or so in those conditions. Very stupid design since they left out any traditional intermittent wiping mode. If they added one more option, perhaps call it "Slow" to wipe every minute or so, I'd be happy.
While my 2008 IS is in for some work, the dealership provided me with a Smokey Granite Mica 2009 ES350. The odometer reads 12k miles and the car seems to be in very good condition. Having tested one out around a track two years ago, I had been wanting to drive it under normal conditions for some time. My overall impression so far is extremely positive. Coming out of the sportier IS line into this required very little adjusting. I thought the suspension would be floaty like I have read in many forums, but I don't see where people get that from. The car feels buttoned down for all normal driving conditions. Obviously it's not designed to carve corners, so the bill fits well.
In comparison to my IS250, the engine is very potent. It's tempting digging your foot into it, but I am more into trying to keep the mileage numbers high. Speaking of those, I am averaging 28 mpg on mostly highway driving. VERY IMPRESSIVE for all that horsepower! This engine is a gem and I wish I could have afforded it in my IS. It's also far quieter in the morning when cold. However, transmission shifts just a tad rougher at any time throughout the day compared to my IS. The gear shifter though flows easier and makes less noise when moving up and down.
Some other points. The interior roof lighting is far nicer than in my IS. Mine only has two mood lights that barely light things up, but the ES is loaded with a row of LED's that are activated when the door opens. I don't know why they skipped this feature with the IS.
Also, the trip computer is much better, with the outside temp always on the display. Not so with the IS. But one thing with the IS display is the graphics are larger making them easier to read. The ES also has a trip timer, which I don't think the IS has.
The seats are very comfortable for longer trips, but lack side support while cornering. Again, wasn't expecting them to be sporty. The center console is huge inside compared to the IS and I love the closure feature. Seat heaters are hidden though, not sure how that passed the engineer test. They also do not warm as much as my IS. Homelink buttons are lost somewhere on the ceiling, I prefer them on the mirror where you know they are always sitting. I guess that is something one would get used to and memorize with ownership. Also notice the homelink signal is stronger and opens gates faster in the ES compared to my IS.
Also like the exterior lock botton on ALL doors. Only having it on the driver's door with the IS is a pain when you are cleaning the car and need to get in and out a lot. I did however feel the trunk opening mechanism felt cheaper. You lift up the trunk and the thing swings right up without any control. With the IS, you have to guide it up as it resists some movement. Probably another thing one would get used to with ownership.
What else? The tailpipe tips are thicker here, which would look good on the IS. I've also struggled getting used to the auto tilt-away steering wheel. While a great idea, I find myself anchored on the wheel trying to get out of the car while it's still moving up. Can't be good for the wheel! Maybe it should move faster or I should move slower. Not sure how I'd fix that one.
Love the wood wheel. Wish the IS had it. But don't like the steering wheel buttons all being the same. On the IS the +'s stick out and the -'s are depressed, so you can tell which buttons you are on just by feel. I haven't caught on to these yet w/o having to look at them.
The Nav is cool, but is there a way to keep the radio station showing while having the map on? Map is my default, but you can't see what station is playing. Maybe there's a setting? Also ran into an issue with the wipers going on without my permission. A smeared window was the result. I know these are auto wipers and I am sure there is a way to shut them off. I'll check in the morning.
One negative is I can't raise the seat high enough. I'm 5'7" and I feel like I am sitting in a tub. While not a big problem, it's hard to see the front corners of the car when making turns around corners. If the seat went up just a hair more, it would solve the problem. Also didn't like the long reach pulling the door closed when inside. Needs a door pull like the IS.
That's about it. The car is super quiet (which I like), very fast, gets impressive mileage, and handles better than I expected around turns. I can see why this car sells so well to so many people. It does just about everything right and looks great doing it. I would seriously consider one in the future!
In comparison to my IS250, the engine is very potent. It's tempting digging your foot into it, but I am more into trying to keep the mileage numbers high. Speaking of those, I am averaging 28 mpg on mostly highway driving. VERY IMPRESSIVE for all that horsepower! This engine is a gem and I wish I could have afforded it in my IS. It's also far quieter in the morning when cold. However, transmission shifts just a tad rougher at any time throughout the day compared to my IS. The gear shifter though flows easier and makes less noise when moving up and down.
Some other points. The interior roof lighting is far nicer than in my IS. Mine only has two mood lights that barely light things up, but the ES is loaded with a row of LED's that are activated when the door opens. I don't know why they skipped this feature with the IS.
Also, the trip computer is much better, with the outside temp always on the display. Not so with the IS. But one thing with the IS display is the graphics are larger making them easier to read. The ES also has a trip timer, which I don't think the IS has.
The seats are very comfortable for longer trips, but lack side support while cornering. Again, wasn't expecting them to be sporty. The center console is huge inside compared to the IS and I love the closure feature. Seat heaters are hidden though, not sure how that passed the engineer test. They also do not warm as much as my IS. Homelink buttons are lost somewhere on the ceiling, I prefer them on the mirror where you know they are always sitting. I guess that is something one would get used to and memorize with ownership. Also notice the homelink signal is stronger and opens gates faster in the ES compared to my IS.
Also like the exterior lock botton on ALL doors. Only having it on the driver's door with the IS is a pain when you are cleaning the car and need to get in and out a lot. I did however feel the trunk opening mechanism felt cheaper. You lift up the trunk and the thing swings right up without any control. With the IS, you have to guide it up as it resists some movement. Probably another thing one would get used to with ownership.
What else? The tailpipe tips are thicker here, which would look good on the IS. I've also struggled getting used to the auto tilt-away steering wheel. While a great idea, I find myself anchored on the wheel trying to get out of the car while it's still moving up. Can't be good for the wheel! Maybe it should move faster or I should move slower. Not sure how I'd fix that one.
Love the wood wheel. Wish the IS had it. But don't like the steering wheel buttons all being the same. On the IS the +'s stick out and the -'s are depressed, so you can tell which buttons you are on just by feel. I haven't caught on to these yet w/o having to look at them.
The Nav is cool, but is there a way to keep the radio station showing while having the map on? Map is my default, but you can't see what station is playing. Maybe there's a setting? Also ran into an issue with the wipers going on without my permission. A smeared window was the result. I know these are auto wipers and I am sure there is a way to shut them off. I'll check in the morning.
One negative is I can't raise the seat high enough. I'm 5'7" and I feel like I am sitting in a tub. While not a big problem, it's hard to see the front corners of the car when making turns around corners. If the seat went up just a hair more, it would solve the problem. Also didn't like the long reach pulling the door closed when inside. Needs a door pull like the IS.
That's about it. The car is super quiet (which I like), very fast, gets impressive mileage, and handles better than I expected around turns. I can see why this car sells so well to so many people. It does just about everything right and looks great doing it. I would seriously consider one in the future!
01-10-10, 04:09 AM
#4
I had a IS250 AWD loaner a few times when our ES350 transmission went south and new rear brake pads were installed. I liked the IS250 a lot but the size / room of the back seat was the only downside for me. It must be a dealer thing but the last time I had a IS250 loaner early this summer, the floor mats were installed upside down. I put them right side up as I found it annoying (this was before the CA accident).
01-10-10, 04:59 AM
#5
Great write-up, I'm sure it will help out other CL members , if they are thinking of an ES purchase. My impressions of the ES are generally favorable with all the loaners I've driven.
01-10-10, 09:35 AM
#6
Lexus Champion
Fizzboy, I enjoyed reading your write up on your ES35 loaner.
I agree with your comments on the switches for the seat heaters/ventilation as well as the unlit Homelink buttons. Both of these IMO are ergonomic oversights. I thought they'd be corrected by now, maybe with the 2010 model but I don't think they have.
I agree with your comments on the switches for the seat heaters/ventilation as well as the unlit Homelink buttons. Both of these IMO are ergonomic oversights. I thought they'd be corrected by now, maybe with the 2010 model but I don't think they have.
01-10-10, 05:04 PM
#7
I played with a 2010 ES350 at the dealer a few weeks back. I noticed the following changes from the 2007-2009 year models:
* Incandescent map lights instead of LED (brighter)
* Contrast colored buttons on ceiling console for lights etc (think this started in '09)
* Eliminated clever open/close mechanism for center console; had traditional slider cover
* Front cup holders have spring loaded fingers to keep cans/cups from rattling
* Hard disk navigation system replaces DVD unit; adds XM Nav Traffic; adds ability to enter destinations via Internet and upload to vehicle via its cellular radio
* XM receiver built in as standard equipment
* More refined interior (cosmetic): Chrome around wood door lock panels and around center dash air vents, chrome release button on glove box; wood strip across top of glove box
* Eco lamp on dash lights when fuel consumption above a certain level
* Rear seats have outboard ceiling lamps with on/off switch plus coat hooks. ('07 had coat hooks but no lamps. '08-'09 had lamps but no coat hooks. '10 has both.)
* Tail lights are styled slightly differently
* Amber turn signals built into outside mirrors
* Chrome strip along lower edge of side of car
* On-Star type feature
* Bug fixes (defects of '07 model presumably have been fixed)
All in all, it looks like a very nice car. I would recommend against the standard stereo, unless the upgraded it for '10, since it is very poor.
* Incandescent map lights instead of LED (brighter)
* Contrast colored buttons on ceiling console for lights etc (think this started in '09)
* Eliminated clever open/close mechanism for center console; had traditional slider cover
* Front cup holders have spring loaded fingers to keep cans/cups from rattling
* Hard disk navigation system replaces DVD unit; adds XM Nav Traffic; adds ability to enter destinations via Internet and upload to vehicle via its cellular radio
* XM receiver built in as standard equipment
* More refined interior (cosmetic): Chrome around wood door lock panels and around center dash air vents, chrome release button on glove box; wood strip across top of glove box
* Eco lamp on dash lights when fuel consumption above a certain level
* Rear seats have outboard ceiling lamps with on/off switch plus coat hooks. ('07 had coat hooks but no lamps. '08-'09 had lamps but no coat hooks. '10 has both.)
* Tail lights are styled slightly differently
* Amber turn signals built into outside mirrors
* Chrome strip along lower edge of side of car
* On-Star type feature
* Bug fixes (defects of '07 model presumably have been fixed)
All in all, it looks like a very nice car. I would recommend against the standard stereo, unless the upgraded it for '10, since it is very poor.
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01-10-10, 09:01 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Thanks for the comments. I few things I forgot to mention were the following:
-Steering feel. Really isn't too bad, but there is definitley more "slop" on center compared to the IS. Or, if one was making a turn, you have to start turning the wheel earlier to get any change in direction. Something I've already adjusted to and not a problem.
-Dipping side view mirrors while in reverse- I'm split on this. While it helps show the curb, it totally eliminates your view further back. Can't see which cars are behind you or other obstacles. I think I rather see a car behind me than see the curb.
-Back to the center console opener. While I said it was slick, it does take longer to locate a single button, rather than an entire leading edge to grasp. I'm now split on this one and understand they redid it.
-I didn't mention, but the car is rattle free. I know there's been complaints about rattles, but there are none with this one.
-Another topic I didn't hit on is the windshield distortion. One of the reasons my car is in at the dealer is because there's an even "dot matrix" pattern in the glass. When you are stopped and looking in the distance, you can see evenly patterned dots along the edges of lightly colored objects. The ES is even worse than my IS. I also had an RX loaner a while ago and it too had the same thing. I guess it's a Lexus trait, but I've heard nary a thing about it on any forum. Drives me nuts, but probably because I know it's there and am looking for it. lol
-One tailpipe tip sits lower than the other. I looked for a scrape mark, but it's unscathed. Anyone else have mismatched tips? I've learned most lefthand IS tips are installed krooked.
-Sunroof switches take much longer to operate than the rotary dial of the IS (2006-2009). One flick and it's done with the IS, but here you have to hold the button down for the duration (unless I'm doing it wrong).
-Today I had to get around a hazard and punched it from a stop. There was some torque-steer, which I read about a while ago. Nothing spooky, but made me remember one benefit of RWD in the city. On the flip-side, I am sure the ES would handle snow and rain very well.
Okay, that's it for now! I have four more days with it, so if anything comes up, I'll report here. Thanks for reading!
-Steering feel. Really isn't too bad, but there is definitley more "slop" on center compared to the IS. Or, if one was making a turn, you have to start turning the wheel earlier to get any change in direction. Something I've already adjusted to and not a problem.
-Dipping side view mirrors while in reverse- I'm split on this. While it helps show the curb, it totally eliminates your view further back. Can't see which cars are behind you or other obstacles. I think I rather see a car behind me than see the curb.
-Back to the center console opener. While I said it was slick, it does take longer to locate a single button, rather than an entire leading edge to grasp. I'm now split on this one and understand they redid it.
-I didn't mention, but the car is rattle free. I know there's been complaints about rattles, but there are none with this one.
-Another topic I didn't hit on is the windshield distortion. One of the reasons my car is in at the dealer is because there's an even "dot matrix" pattern in the glass. When you are stopped and looking in the distance, you can see evenly patterned dots along the edges of lightly colored objects. The ES is even worse than my IS. I also had an RX loaner a while ago and it too had the same thing. I guess it's a Lexus trait, but I've heard nary a thing about it on any forum. Drives me nuts, but probably because I know it's there and am looking for it. lol
-One tailpipe tip sits lower than the other. I looked for a scrape mark, but it's unscathed. Anyone else have mismatched tips? I've learned most lefthand IS tips are installed krooked.
-Sunroof switches take much longer to operate than the rotary dial of the IS (2006-2009). One flick and it's done with the IS, but here you have to hold the button down for the duration (unless I'm doing it wrong).
-Today I had to get around a hazard and punched it from a stop. There was some torque-steer, which I read about a while ago. Nothing spooky, but made me remember one benefit of RWD in the city. On the flip-side, I am sure the ES would handle snow and rain very well.
Okay, that's it for now! I have four more days with it, so if anything comes up, I'll report here. Thanks for reading!
01-11-10, 11:23 AM
#9
@Fizzboy7:
* Auto-down side mirrors when in reverse: Flip the power mirror switch's left/right mirror selector to the center position to disable this feature
* Glass distortion: I've never noticed this. Are you wearing polarizing glasses?
* Auto-down side mirrors when in reverse: Flip the power mirror switch's left/right mirror selector to the center position to disable this feature
* Glass distortion: I've never noticed this. Are you wearing polarizing glasses?
01-11-10, 11:52 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Not wearing glasses. It's not easy to see, but when you are stopped at a light and it's sunny out, focus on the border of a white or light object in the distance. Then move your head a little and you'll see a bunch of dots blur around the edge of the object. My IS has it, the RX loaner had it, and the ES has it. From what I have read in one post, someone stated it's in the bonding of the layers of glass.
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