Sudden Acceleration - Latest?
01-27-10, 07:55 AM
#17
Unintended acceleration???
I have been following the discussions on this issue, and I have only 1 comment.
In these days of "drive-by-wire" systems, there is no spring-loaded "linkage" as in the past. The cable-operated throttle body systems put a reasonable amount of resistance to the downward force, and worked to close the throttle plate.
There is only a resistor and a light spring inside the car. The actuator spring on the throttle body is really quite stiff, but nothing connects to the pedal anymore. This actuator will only respond to signals given by the resistor and amplified by the computer, so a light push by the pedal results in a big shift in the actuator.
It seems to me that the problem is only inside the car, and needs to be addressed there. To reprogram the computer is to make the actuator less sensitive, and more controllable in my opinion.
I drove a LS460 yesterday, and I can tell you that just a light push gives terrific response.
The salesperson also did not know that an emergency engine stop on this system when the car is in gear can be activated by simply holding the stop button in for 3 seconds continuously, and the engine will stop while the car is rolling. If the car is in neutral or park, just a push of the button will stop the engine immediately
I demonstrated this while while driving on an interstate in the slow lane, and he was scared, but impressed. Everything shut off and the instrumentpanel went blank. Restart was immediate on the coasting vehicle after placing the gearshift in neutral, and lightly pressing the brake while pushing the start button. I then placed the gearshift in drive and continued back to the dealership.
Lexus and Toyota both made a mistake by not covering this fact in detail when the car is delivered to the owner. I also feel that rental car companies should stress this also when renting a car to an uninformed driver. We have so many uniformed drivers on the road with this system in place. No one thinks about how to stop a vehicle if something goes wrong. If this was done here in San Diego when the ES350 was loaned to a customer at a Lexus dealership, PERHAPS the family would be alive today.
Push button start with Drive by wire is available in nearly every car manufacturer on upper-end vehicles today. It seems to be a problem only on Toyota vehicles so far. What gives? If the accelerator is not being activated by a stuck floor mat, what is it?
I guess we will find out very soon.
In these days of "drive-by-wire" systems, there is no spring-loaded "linkage" as in the past. The cable-operated throttle body systems put a reasonable amount of resistance to the downward force, and worked to close the throttle plate.
There is only a resistor and a light spring inside the car. The actuator spring on the throttle body is really quite stiff, but nothing connects to the pedal anymore. This actuator will only respond to signals given by the resistor and amplified by the computer, so a light push by the pedal results in a big shift in the actuator.
It seems to me that the problem is only inside the car, and needs to be addressed there. To reprogram the computer is to make the actuator less sensitive, and more controllable in my opinion.
I drove a LS460 yesterday, and I can tell you that just a light push gives terrific response.
The salesperson also did not know that an emergency engine stop on this system when the car is in gear can be activated by simply holding the stop button in for 3 seconds continuously, and the engine will stop while the car is rolling. If the car is in neutral or park, just a push of the button will stop the engine immediately
I demonstrated this while while driving on an interstate in the slow lane, and he was scared, but impressed. Everything shut off and the instrumentpanel went blank. Restart was immediate on the coasting vehicle after placing the gearshift in neutral, and lightly pressing the brake while pushing the start button. I then placed the gearshift in drive and continued back to the dealership.
Lexus and Toyota both made a mistake by not covering this fact in detail when the car is delivered to the owner. I also feel that rental car companies should stress this also when renting a car to an uninformed driver. We have so many uniformed drivers on the road with this system in place. No one thinks about how to stop a vehicle if something goes wrong. If this was done here in San Diego when the ES350 was loaned to a customer at a Lexus dealership, PERHAPS the family would be alive today.
Push button start with Drive by wire is available in nearly every car manufacturer on upper-end vehicles today. It seems to be a problem only on Toyota vehicles so far. What gives? If the accelerator is not being activated by a stuck floor mat, what is it?
I guess we will find out very soon.
Last edited by gserep1; 01-27-10 at 08:00 AM.
01-27-10, 10:17 AM
#18
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looks like not a voluatary recall
According to NHTSA, Toyota is legally obligated to stop selling those model and not a voluntary actions. And you have to wonder how much time they have to test the new fix... It seems to be spinning out of control at this point..
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-re...-vehicles.html
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nhtsa-re...-vehicles.html
Although Toyota’s PR department has spun the situation to imply the company stopped sales and production of vehicle affected on its own accord, David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, has revealed Toyota was legally obligated to stop selling models involved in the company’s latest recall.
01-27-10, 07:11 PM
#20
I confirmed that vehicles built in Japan are exempt from the recall. My wife's 2010 Highlander was built in Japan. 
If the first letter of your VIN is a J, you are fine.
If the first letter of your VIN is a J, you are fine.
01-27-10, 10:22 PM
#21
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...610_p228906387
Apparently the ES 350 and the Camry use different parts. And even then only certain Camrys.
So the cop's loaner car that was an ES 350 did have the wrong mats. It is the Toyota's with the faulty accelerator pedal. Some guy recently had the stuck accelerator pedel on his Avalon and managed to get it to a dealer. Funny how the dealer replaced everything BUT the accelerator pedal.
No Lexus Division or Scion vehicles are affected by these actions.
So the cop's loaner car that was an ES 350 did have the wrong mats. It is the Toyota's with the faulty accelerator pedal. Some guy recently had the stuck accelerator pedel on his Avalon and managed to get it to a dealer. Funny how the dealer replaced everything BUT the accelerator pedal.
01-27-10, 10:41 PM
#22
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The latest news is not too hot for Toyota..
I think we got to ask the question here. If Toyota know of the problem (look at the timeline, the problem surfaced in Dec 08. And people reported to die in 09), why do they not stop selling the car earlier and develop the fix faster? And what are they going to study about Europe situation? Why don't they pull those from the market as well? It is like selling a timebomb knowing that a small percentage of folk who drive this car will get into trouble and may be killed, but they will keep selling the car anyway before the fix is ready.. I am now sure their coporate manager have figure out how bad this look from a consumer perspective.. I think they are still trying to figure out the bottom line. For those who think the problem is limited to US production car.. Look like it go beyond US now...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35103217/ns/business-autos/
Toyota's report says it first received reports in March 2007, of gas pedals being slow to come back in the Tundra pickup, and fixed the problem in February 2008.
Starting in December 2008, similar problems were reported in Europe with the Aygo and Yaris models. Toyota said it lengthened a part and changed the material to fix the problem, starting in August 2009.
The latest problem emerged in North America, culminating in the decision for the recall earlier this month, Toyota said in the report.
...
In addition, the problem could spread to Europe, where a similar accelerator part is being used, said Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi. She declined to give the number of vehicles affected. The company was studying possible responses there, including a recall, she said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35103217/ns/business-autos/
Toyota's report says it first received reports in March 2007, of gas pedals being slow to come back in the Tundra pickup, and fixed the problem in February 2008.
Starting in December 2008, similar problems were reported in Europe with the Aygo and Yaris models. Toyota said it lengthened a part and changed the material to fix the problem, starting in August 2009.
The latest problem emerged in North America, culminating in the decision for the recall earlier this month, Toyota said in the report.
...
In addition, the problem could spread to Europe, where a similar accelerator part is being used, said Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi. She declined to give the number of vehicles affected. The company was studying possible responses there, including a recall, she said.
01-28-10, 06:38 AM
#23
From the Toyota website:
Toyota Announces Details of Remedy to Address Potential Accelerator Pedal Entrapment
Torrance, Calif., November 25, 2009 - - Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. (TMS) announced today details of the vehicle-based remedy to address the root cause of the potential risk for floor mat entrapment of accelerator pedals in certain Toyota and Lexus models. Toyota issued a consumer safety advisory on September 29 on this issue and has, as an interim measure, commenced the mailing of safety notices to certain Toyota and Lexus owners on October 30.
The models involved are: 2007 to 2010 MY (model year) Camry, 2005 to 2010 MY Avalon, 2004 to 2009 MY Prius, 2005 to 2010 MY Tacoma, 2007 to 2010 MY Tundra, 2007 to 2010 MY ES350, 2006 to 2010 MY IS250, and 2006 to 2010 MY IS 350.
The specific measures of the vehicle-based remedy are as follows:
1. The shape of the accelerator pedal will be reconfigured to address the risk of floor mat entrapment, even when an older-design all-weather floor mat or other inappropriate floor mat is improperly attached, or is placed on top of another floor mat. For the ES350, Camry, and Avalon models involved, the shape of the floor surface underneath will also be reconfigured to increase the space between the accelerator pedal and the floor.
2. Vehicles with any genuine Toyota or Lexus accessory all-weather floor mat will be provided with newly-designed replacement driver- and front passenger-side all-weather floor mats.
In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals.
Toyota is in the process of completing development of these actions and for the ES350, Camry, and Avalon will start notifying owners of the involved vehicles via first-class mail by the end of this year. The remedy process regarding the other five models will occur on a rolling schedule during 2010.
Dealers will be trained and equipped to make the necessary modifications to these models starting at the beginning of 2010. Initially, dealers will be instructed on how to reshape the accelerator pedal for the repair. As replacement parts with the same shape as the modified pedal become available, they will be made available to dealers for the repair, beginning around April 2010. Customers who have had the remedy completed will have the opportunity to receive a new pedal if they desire.
In the meantime, owners of the involved vehicles are asked to take out any removable driver’s floor mat and not replace it with any other floor mat until they are notified of the vehicle-based remedy, as notified in the consumer safety advisory and the interim notice.
The brake override system will be made standard equipment throughout the Toyota and Lexus product lines starting with January 2010 production of ES350 and Camry and is scheduled to be incorporated into new production of most models by the end of 2010.
The safety of our owners and the public is our utmost concern and Toyota has and will continue to thoroughly investigate and take appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are identified.
Owners who have further questions are asked to visit www.toyota.com or www.lexus.com or contact the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 1-800-331-4331 or Lexus Customer Assistance at 1-800-255-3987.
Toyota Announces Details of Remedy to Address Potential Accelerator Pedal Entrapment
Torrance, Calif., November 25, 2009 - - Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. (TMS) announced today details of the vehicle-based remedy to address the root cause of the potential risk for floor mat entrapment of accelerator pedals in certain Toyota and Lexus models. Toyota issued a consumer safety advisory on September 29 on this issue and has, as an interim measure, commenced the mailing of safety notices to certain Toyota and Lexus owners on October 30.
The models involved are: 2007 to 2010 MY (model year) Camry, 2005 to 2010 MY Avalon, 2004 to 2009 MY Prius, 2005 to 2010 MY Tacoma, 2007 to 2010 MY Tundra, 2007 to 2010 MY ES350, 2006 to 2010 MY IS250, and 2006 to 2010 MY IS 350.
The specific measures of the vehicle-based remedy are as follows:
1. The shape of the accelerator pedal will be reconfigured to address the risk of floor mat entrapment, even when an older-design all-weather floor mat or other inappropriate floor mat is improperly attached, or is placed on top of another floor mat. For the ES350, Camry, and Avalon models involved, the shape of the floor surface underneath will also be reconfigured to increase the space between the accelerator pedal and the floor.
2. Vehicles with any genuine Toyota or Lexus accessory all-weather floor mat will be provided with newly-designed replacement driver- and front passenger-side all-weather floor mats.
In addition, as a separate measure independent of the vehicle-based remedy, Toyota will install a brake override system onto the involved Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS350 and IS 250 models as an extra measure of confidence. This system cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals.
Toyota is in the process of completing development of these actions and for the ES350, Camry, and Avalon will start notifying owners of the involved vehicles via first-class mail by the end of this year. The remedy process regarding the other five models will occur on a rolling schedule during 2010.
Dealers will be trained and equipped to make the necessary modifications to these models starting at the beginning of 2010. Initially, dealers will be instructed on how to reshape the accelerator pedal for the repair. As replacement parts with the same shape as the modified pedal become available, they will be made available to dealers for the repair, beginning around April 2010. Customers who have had the remedy completed will have the opportunity to receive a new pedal if they desire.
In the meantime, owners of the involved vehicles are asked to take out any removable driver’s floor mat and not replace it with any other floor mat until they are notified of the vehicle-based remedy, as notified in the consumer safety advisory and the interim notice.
The brake override system will be made standard equipment throughout the Toyota and Lexus product lines starting with January 2010 production of ES350 and Camry and is scheduled to be incorporated into new production of most models by the end of 2010.
The safety of our owners and the public is our utmost concern and Toyota has and will continue to thoroughly investigate and take appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are identified.
Owners who have further questions are asked to visit www.toyota.com or www.lexus.com or contact the Toyota Customer Experience Center at 1-800-331-4331 or Lexus Customer Assistance at 1-800-255-3987.
01-28-10, 06:52 AM
#25
Pole Position
I think we got to ask the question here. If Toyota know of the problem (look at the timeline, the problem surfaced in Dec 08. And people reported to die in 09), why do they not stop selling the car earlier and develop the fix faster? And what are they going to study about Europe situation? Why don't they pull those from the market as well? It is like selling a timebomb knowing that a small percentage of folk who drive this car will get into trouble and may be killed, but they will keep selling the car anyway before the fix is ready.. I am now sure their coporate manager have figure out how bad this look from a consumer perspective.. I think they are still trying to figure out the bottom line. For those who think the problem is limited to US production car.. Look like it go beyond US now...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35103217/ns/business-autos/
Toyota's report says it first received reports in March 2007, of gas pedals being slow to come back in the Tundra pickup, and fixed the problem in February 2008.
Starting in December 2008, similar problems were reported in Europe with the Aygo and Yaris models. Toyota said it lengthened a part and changed the material to fix the problem, starting in August 2009.
The latest problem emerged in North America, culminating in the decision for the recall earlier this month, Toyota said in the report.
...
In addition, the problem could spread to Europe, where a similar accelerator part is being used, said Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi. She declined to give the number of vehicles affected. The company was studying possible responses there, including a recall, she said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35103217/ns/business-autos/
Toyota's report says it first received reports in March 2007, of gas pedals being slow to come back in the Tundra pickup, and fixed the problem in February 2008.
Starting in December 2008, similar problems were reported in Europe with the Aygo and Yaris models. Toyota said it lengthened a part and changed the material to fix the problem, starting in August 2009.
The latest problem emerged in North America, culminating in the decision for the recall earlier this month, Toyota said in the report.
...
In addition, the problem could spread to Europe, where a similar accelerator part is being used, said Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi. She declined to give the number of vehicles affected. The company was studying possible responses there, including a recall, she said.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...es-models.html
01-28-10, 07:13 AM
#26
01-28-10, 07:46 AM
#27
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Interesting. From today's news 1/28/10
Ford Motor Co. has stopped production of a full-size commercial vehicle in China after discovering that the gas pedal used came from the supplier involved in the recall at Toyota Motor Co.
Shame Toyota didn't take things more seriously back in late 06-07 time frame as problems first got reported.
Shame Toyota didn't take things more seriously back in late 06-07 time frame as problems first got reported.
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