Unsafe vehicle?
03-10-10, 02:59 PM
#31
Lexus Champion
lex330/04, I bought my 2010 on 1/31 (traded in an '07) and the pedal/floor modifications and ECU update were done at the dealership prior to the sale of the car to me. I saw/confirmed this while looking at the cars Sevice History online.
Since you car will be newer with the 3/15 delvery date I wonder if these updates will have been done at the factory or by the delvering dealership?
Since you car will be newer with the 3/15 delvery date I wonder if these updates will have been done at the factory or by the delvering dealership?
Last edited by LexBob2; 03-10-10 at 03:04 PM.
03-10-10, 02:59 PM
#32
There are ways to get out of your lease, make someone an offer so good they can't refuse, you said you didn't care about losing 1k if lexus would take the car back, maybe they won't, maybe someone else would take over the least for you with enough intensive.
Maybe something like http://www.leasetrader.com would work for you.
I think the government has a conflict of interest in going after Toyota to the extent they are, in part due to having a hand in GM and Chrysler. I believe the ultimate goal is to get the unions in there.
The news always no matter what network is after ratings and they sensationalize the news. People are so easily scared, and the news hits you with story after story every night that the sky is falling (why there might some truth in there you have to question it, and try to think for yourself ... weed through all the crap)
That James Sikes guy with the run away Prius in San Diego imo is full of it. He only stopped once he had a police "witness" Didn't turn the car off, or put it in nutral(he'd rather crash I guess, or get attention and money out of toyota! (oh the news also reported it's not the first time he has reported "things" a few years ago he reported a truck cover stolen valued at 700-800 and then a year or so later reported over 53,000$ in stolen electronics and other items. Police never found anything in either case, but he was never charged either)
Whenever anything like this happens you get all the people after easy money and jumping on for there piece of the pie, it's pathetic, and I hope Toyota gets to the bottom of whatever issue it is, and then goes after all the liars :-)
My Father has an 07 Avalon with 101k on it - Not a single issue he just had the recall done on the accelerator , oil hose, and floor-mats (he thinks it's BS, oh but also knows how to put a car in neutral / turn it off)
My Mom has an 06 Avalon with 53k on it - Not a single issue, and she even knows how to put a car in neutral and or turn it off if needed.
so over 150k there
I don't think the problem is as wide spread or scary as some people, or the news is making it out to be
Maybe something like http://www.leasetrader.com would work for you.
I think the government has a conflict of interest in going after Toyota to the extent they are, in part due to having a hand in GM and Chrysler. I believe the ultimate goal is to get the unions in there.
The news always no matter what network is after ratings and they sensationalize the news. People are so easily scared, and the news hits you with story after story every night that the sky is falling (why there might some truth in there you have to question it, and try to think for yourself ... weed through all the crap)
That James Sikes guy with the run away Prius in San Diego imo is full of it. He only stopped once he had a police "witness" Didn't turn the car off, or put it in nutral(he'd rather crash I guess, or get attention and money out of toyota! (oh the news also reported it's not the first time he has reported "things" a few years ago he reported a truck cover stolen valued at 700-800 and then a year or so later reported over 53,000$ in stolen electronics and other items. Police never found anything in either case, but he was never charged either)
Whenever anything like this happens you get all the people after easy money and jumping on for there piece of the pie, it's pathetic, and I hope Toyota gets to the bottom of whatever issue it is, and then goes after all the liars :-)
My Father has an 07 Avalon with 101k on it - Not a single issue he just had the recall done on the accelerator , oil hose, and floor-mats (he thinks it's BS, oh but also knows how to put a car in neutral / turn it off)
My Mom has an 06 Avalon with 53k on it - Not a single issue, and she even knows how to put a car in neutral and or turn it off if needed.
so over 150k there
I don't think the problem is as wide spread or scary as some people, or the news is making it out to be
03-10-10, 03:00 PM
#33
Lead Lap
If you are really that scared of the car for some reason and you couldn't possibly be bothered to shift into N if in the .00000000000001% chance that the car suddenly accelerates, then why not sub lease it to someone else and go get another brand of car?
03-10-10, 03:43 PM
#34
lex330/04, I bought my 2010 on 1/31 (traded in an '07) and the pedal/floor modifications and ECU update were done at the dealership prior to the sale of the car to me. I saw/confirmed this while looking at the cars Sevice History online.
Since you car will be newer with the 3/15 delvery date I wonder if these updates will have been done at the factory or by the delvering dealership?
Since you car will be newer with the 3/15 delvery date I wonder if these updates will have been done at the factory or by the delvering dealership?
03-10-10, 05:21 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
On Lexus.com there is a pick for Owners. You register and then are able log in, set up your car with the VIN # etc. and then you can see the Service Hist. It also allows you to see if there are any recalls or service campaigns that apply to your car. It's good info and easy to get at.
03-10-10, 05:41 PM
#36
03-10-10, 05:41 PM
#37
On Lexus.com there is a pick for Owners. You register and then are able log in, set up your car with the VIN # etc. and then you can see the Service Hist. It also allows you to see if there are any recalls or service campaigns that apply to your car. It's good info and easy to get at.
03-10-10, 05:43 PM
#38
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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I am about to get my second Lexus in the next few weeks, and as a seldom driver in NYC I am a bit nervous too. I test drove two Infinitis this past weekend and I came away realizing that Lexus (putting aside these issues) is the right car for me (quiet, luxurious, smooth ride - and the Infiniti does not have an intermediate size car).
I told my knowledgeable NYC salesperson that I am having a crisis of confidence; he didn't respond to the email. So I walked into the dealership and asked for five minutes with a manager, thinking someone educated about the issue could calm me. He couldn't be bothered, but sent someone else to chat with me, who told me that his wife drives a Lexus. Great! A young salesguy was standing nearby and told me how many recalls other cars have had. Bottom line: Lexus could do a better job in educating their customers, in my opinion. I wasn't asking for much.
It looks like I will get a car that has been factory fixed, but they are not being delivered until the last week in March. Cars delivered before that will be dealer fixed. The salesperson was able to show me whether or not the incoming vehicle needed to be fixed or not on his screen.
On a positive note, it looks like this situation has driven the price down.
I told my knowledgeable NYC salesperson that I am having a crisis of confidence; he didn't respond to the email. So I walked into the dealership and asked for five minutes with a manager, thinking someone educated about the issue could calm me. He couldn't be bothered, but sent someone else to chat with me, who told me that his wife drives a Lexus. Great! A young salesguy was standing nearby and told me how many recalls other cars have had. Bottom line: Lexus could do a better job in educating their customers, in my opinion. I wasn't asking for much.
It looks like I will get a car that has been factory fixed, but they are not being delivered until the last week in March. Cars delivered before that will be dealer fixed. The salesperson was able to show me whether or not the incoming vehicle needed to be fixed or not on his screen.
On a positive note, it looks like this situation has driven the price down.
03-10-10, 05:56 PM
#39
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New article confirming what some of you have stated here:
Spike in Prius complaints may not be all it seems
By ERIN McCLAM and TOM KRISHER, Associated Press Writers Erin Mcclam And Tom Krisher, Associated Press Writers 44 mins ago
NEW YORK – Reports of sudden acceleration in the Toyota Prius have spiked across the country. But that doesn't mean there's an epidemic of bad gas pedals in the popular hybrid.
Experts on consumer psychology say the relentless negative media attention Toyota has received since the fall makes it much more likely that drivers will mistake anything unexpected — or even a misplaced foot — for actual danger.
"When people expect problems, they're more likely to find them," said Lars Perner, a professor of clinical marketing at Marshall School of Business at University of Southern California.
In just the first 10 weeks of this year, 272 complaints have been filed nationwide for speed control problems with the Prius, according to an Associated Press analysis of unverified complaints received by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
By comparison, only 74 complaints were filed in all of last year, and just eight the year before that.
For problems with the brakes, rather than the gas, the figures are even more stark: 1,816 filed so far this year versus just 90 in all of 2009 and fewer than 20 in every other year of the last decade. Toyota recalled 440,000 Priuses on Feb. 8 because its antilock brakes seemed to fail momentarily on bumpy roads.
It's doubtful the Priuses of the past two years suddenly became more dangerous than those made in years past. After all, Toyota's own recall for Prius floor mats that can trap gas pedals covers model years 2004 to 2009.
Earlier this week came one of the most high-profile case of any Toyota problem so far: A man driving on a Southern California freeway said his 2008 Prius sped out of control, reaching 94 mph, before a patrol officer helped him bring it to a stop.
Then, in suburban New York, the owner of a 2005 Prius said his housekeeper was driving it forward down the driveway when the car lurched forward, crossed the street and hit a stone wall.
"She appears to have all her faculties," Capt. Anthony Marraccini of the Harrison, N.Y., police said of the housekeeper Wednesday. "She didn't appear to be disoriented in any way. There's nothing at this particular time that would indicate driver error."
Investigators from the federal government and Toyota are looking at both cases, and authorities have not suggested either case is anything but legitimate.
Toyota has continually said it has found nothing wrong with its electronic throttle controls and that it is confident they work properly.
The automaker has recalled 8.5 million vehicles worldwide — more than 6 million in the United States — because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius. Regulators have linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems.
Electronics experts say the computers, sensors and wires that control the throttle can be compromised by electronic interference. Toyota insists the problems with its cars have been mechanical.
Toyota has a "quite lengthy" procedure for its specialists when they evaluate cars, including a diagnostic check, an oscilloscope to test electronics and a checklist of potential problems, spokesman Brian Lyons said.
The 2008 Prius, the model involved in the California freeway runaway, would have been equipped with a backup mechanism designed to cut power to the wheels if the gas and brake pedals are depressed at the same time, Toyota says.
The driver, James Sikes, said he jammed the brake repeatedly, even stood on it, before he was able to bring the car under control.
A Toyota spokesman, John Hanson, said Toyota engineers talked with Sikes on Tuesday, but he did not know what was said in the interview.
Toyota's engineers, as well as investigators from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, will check physical evidence from the Prius and compare that with what Sikes said in the interviews, Hanson said.
The government does not give statistics on how many of the reported car problems are actually confirmed. Toyota keeps its own stats — and, perhaps not surprisingly, does not release them.
So there's no way to know how many runaway cases are for real — even as the figures pile ever higher.
The phenomenon has plenty of parallels.
In 2003, thanks to a media blitz by the police union, New Yorkers were convinced the cops were on a ticket-writing spree, for everything from sitting on a milk crate to resting on the steps of subway station. It turned out tickets were actually on the decline.
Think of medical students who learn about all sorts of disorders and then suspect they may be stricken by them. Or muckraking journalist Lincoln Steffens, who competed for police scoops with his fellow newspapermen and once wrote: "I enjoy crime waves. I made one once."
Even the heightened number of complaints is relatively small compared with how many Priuses are on the road. Toyota sold about 750,000 of them from 2004 to 2009.
But as long as reports of Prius profile keep rolling in — just look at the extensive coverage given to a single crash in that New York suburb, something that would have gone utterly unnoticed a year ago — expect complaints to keep rising.
"We are basically anticipating them happening, and we may be prone to jump to conclusions," said L.J. Shrum, a marketing professor who specializes in consumer psychology at University of Texas at San Antonio.
Spike in Prius complaints may not be all it seems
By ERIN McCLAM and TOM KRISHER, Associated Press Writers Erin Mcclam And Tom Krisher, Associated Press Writers 44 mins ago
NEW YORK – Reports of sudden acceleration in the Toyota Prius have spiked across the country. But that doesn't mean there's an epidemic of bad gas pedals in the popular hybrid.
Experts on consumer psychology say the relentless negative media attention Toyota has received since the fall makes it much more likely that drivers will mistake anything unexpected — or even a misplaced foot — for actual danger.
"When people expect problems, they're more likely to find them," said Lars Perner, a professor of clinical marketing at Marshall School of Business at University of Southern California.
In just the first 10 weeks of this year, 272 complaints have been filed nationwide for speed control problems with the Prius, according to an Associated Press analysis of unverified complaints received by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
By comparison, only 74 complaints were filed in all of last year, and just eight the year before that.
For problems with the brakes, rather than the gas, the figures are even more stark: 1,816 filed so far this year versus just 90 in all of 2009 and fewer than 20 in every other year of the last decade. Toyota recalled 440,000 Priuses on Feb. 8 because its antilock brakes seemed to fail momentarily on bumpy roads.
It's doubtful the Priuses of the past two years suddenly became more dangerous than those made in years past. After all, Toyota's own recall for Prius floor mats that can trap gas pedals covers model years 2004 to 2009.
Earlier this week came one of the most high-profile case of any Toyota problem so far: A man driving on a Southern California freeway said his 2008 Prius sped out of control, reaching 94 mph, before a patrol officer helped him bring it to a stop.
Then, in suburban New York, the owner of a 2005 Prius said his housekeeper was driving it forward down the driveway when the car lurched forward, crossed the street and hit a stone wall.
"She appears to have all her faculties," Capt. Anthony Marraccini of the Harrison, N.Y., police said of the housekeeper Wednesday. "She didn't appear to be disoriented in any way. There's nothing at this particular time that would indicate driver error."
Investigators from the federal government and Toyota are looking at both cases, and authorities have not suggested either case is anything but legitimate.
Toyota has continually said it has found nothing wrong with its electronic throttle controls and that it is confident they work properly.
The automaker has recalled 8.5 million vehicles worldwide — more than 6 million in the United States — because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius. Regulators have linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems.
Electronics experts say the computers, sensors and wires that control the throttle can be compromised by electronic interference. Toyota insists the problems with its cars have been mechanical.
Toyota has a "quite lengthy" procedure for its specialists when they evaluate cars, including a diagnostic check, an oscilloscope to test electronics and a checklist of potential problems, spokesman Brian Lyons said.
The 2008 Prius, the model involved in the California freeway runaway, would have been equipped with a backup mechanism designed to cut power to the wheels if the gas and brake pedals are depressed at the same time, Toyota says.
The driver, James Sikes, said he jammed the brake repeatedly, even stood on it, before he was able to bring the car under control.
A Toyota spokesman, John Hanson, said Toyota engineers talked with Sikes on Tuesday, but he did not know what was said in the interview.
Toyota's engineers, as well as investigators from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, will check physical evidence from the Prius and compare that with what Sikes said in the interviews, Hanson said.
The government does not give statistics on how many of the reported car problems are actually confirmed. Toyota keeps its own stats — and, perhaps not surprisingly, does not release them.
So there's no way to know how many runaway cases are for real — even as the figures pile ever higher.
The phenomenon has plenty of parallels.
In 2003, thanks to a media blitz by the police union, New Yorkers were convinced the cops were on a ticket-writing spree, for everything from sitting on a milk crate to resting on the steps of subway station. It turned out tickets were actually on the decline.
Think of medical students who learn about all sorts of disorders and then suspect they may be stricken by them. Or muckraking journalist Lincoln Steffens, who competed for police scoops with his fellow newspapermen and once wrote: "I enjoy crime waves. I made one once."
Even the heightened number of complaints is relatively small compared with how many Priuses are on the road. Toyota sold about 750,000 of them from 2004 to 2009.
But as long as reports of Prius profile keep rolling in — just look at the extensive coverage given to a single crash in that New York suburb, something that would have gone utterly unnoticed a year ago — expect complaints to keep rising.
"We are basically anticipating them happening, and we may be prone to jump to conclusions," said L.J. Shrum, a marketing professor who specializes in consumer psychology at University of Texas at San Antonio.
03-10-10, 05:57 PM
#40
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: wi
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Have owned (leased) ES350 for 2 months. Very disappointed about safety concerns with SUA, since the ONLY consideration when looking for a new vehicle is safety.
Contacted Lexus Eastern Area office, (having gone through dealer, cs, etc. proper channels), wrote a thoughtful letter about concerns. Their response? An insulting form letter about the floor mats and how the recall has fixed everything.
I'm stuck now with a car that I don't want to drive because it's a roll of the dice every time I get behind the wheel.
(by the way, this vehicle is terrible in snow. slips around on the tiniest gradient if there's any snow).
Can't wait now for people to ask me how I like my car. Lexus' non-response is going to end up costing them. *rant finished*
Contacted Lexus Eastern Area office, (having gone through dealer, cs, etc. proper channels), wrote a thoughtful letter about concerns. Their response? An insulting form letter about the floor mats and how the recall has fixed everything.
I'm stuck now with a car that I don't want to drive because it's a roll of the dice every time I get behind the wheel.
(by the way, this vehicle is terrible in snow. slips around on the tiniest gradient if there's any snow).
Can't wait now for people to ask me how I like my car. Lexus' non-response is going to end up costing them. *rant finished*
Have owned (leased) ES350 for 2 months. Very disappointed about safety concerns with SUA, since the ONLY consideration when looking for a new vehicle is safety.
Contacted Lexus Eastern Area office, (having gone through dealer, cs, etc. proper channels), wrote a thoughtful letter about concerns. Their response? An insulting form letter about the floor mats and how the recall has fixed everything.
I'm stuck now with a car that I don't want to drive because it's a roll of the dice every time I get behind the wheel.
(by the way, this vehicle is terrible in snow. slips around on the tiniest gradient if there's any snow).
Can't wait now for people to ask me how I like my car. Lexus' non-response is going to end up costing them. *rant finished*
Contacted Lexus Eastern Area office, (having gone through dealer, cs, etc. proper channels), wrote a thoughtful letter about concerns. Their response? An insulting form letter about the floor mats and how the recall has fixed everything.
I'm stuck now with a car that I don't want to drive because it's a roll of the dice every time I get behind the wheel.
(by the way, this vehicle is terrible in snow. slips around on the tiniest gradient if there's any snow).
Can't wait now for people to ask me how I like my car. Lexus' non-response is going to end up costing them. *rant finished*
Couple thoughts regarding your car:
(1) Could you get someone to assume your lease
or
(2) Find out the payoff amount (via LFS), sell the vehicle and pay the difference.
If you don't feel safe and are not happy with your vehicle, 34 months are going to be very long.
03-10-10, 07:46 PM
#41
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Az
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In the interview of the guy with the runaway Prius, It was obvious that the story was fabricated. Not a very good liar.
There must be other reasons the op doesn't like his car. Very irrational to want to get rid of your car because of this media bs. I can think of alot more important things in life to worry about.
There must be other reasons the op doesn't like his car. Very irrational to want to get rid of your car because of this media bs. I can think of alot more important things in life to worry about.
03-11-10, 04:24 AM
#42
Pole Position
In the interview of the guy with the runaway Prius, It was obvious that the story was fabricated. Not a very good liar.
There must be other reasons the op doesn't like his car. Very irrational to want to get rid of your car because of this media bs. I can think of alot more important things in life to worry about.
There must be other reasons the op doesn't like his car. Very irrational to want to get rid of your car because of this media bs. I can think of alot more important things in life to worry about.
03-11-10, 04:34 AM
#43
Lex330, My car was picked up on 12/18/09. Built in October 09. They would not sell me the winter mats at that time. And they had a warning and instruction sticker on the regular floormants. They were not tie-rapped in place. I plan to have my computer re-flashed and the get a brand new shorter pedal, after the hoopla subsides.
03-11-10, 06:48 AM
#44
Lex330, My car was picked up on 12/18/09. Built in October 09. They would not sell me the winter mats at that time. And they had a warning and instruction sticker on the regular floormants. They were not tie-rapped in place. I plan to have my computer re-flashed and the get a brand new shorter pedal, after the hoopla subsides.
I bought my '10 ES in Oct.No all weather mats available and the carpet mats were plastic tied too.
I had the updated brake override software done but passed on the pedal and carpet work.
