Car & Driver Comparo
06-01-10, 06:20 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I thought the positive write up from C&D was a bit of a surprise. They usually favor handling and performance from cars. I think they kept in perspective the purpose of the cars tested, as well as the preferences of the typical buyers/drivers of them.
06-01-10, 06:33 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yeah the ES had the highest base MSRP and as tested price. They said it drove like a RollsRoyce and was just super refined. Of course the handling was not as good as the RWD Genesis but its no slouch as it was the 2nd fastest car (barely behind the Genesis).
Also consider the ES is the OLDEST vehicle here. A really good showing in C&D do less (with an editor that HATES Lexus).
Also consider the ES is the OLDEST vehicle here. A really good showing in C&D do less (with an editor that HATES Lexus).
06-01-10, 06:45 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Yeah the ES had the highest base MSRP and as tested price. They said it drove like a RollsRoyce and was just super refined. Of course the handling was not as good as the RWD Genesis but its no slouch as it was the 2nd fastest car (barely behind the Genesis).
Also consider the ES is the OLDEST vehicle here. A really good showing in C&D do less (with an editor that HATES Lexus).
Also consider the ES is the OLDEST vehicle here. A really good showing in C&D do less (with an editor that HATES Lexus).
06-01-10, 11:44 AM
#19
When I was looking to trade for a new car a few months back, drove the Acura TL and the Genesis. Both nice cars and each had some features that I liked but handled PA's lousy roads like bricks. My problem was that I wanted a comfortable ride and was willing to give up some of the "corner carving" ability so near and dear to the enthusiast heart. The ES, on the other hand, rides very nicely with a quiet cabin. Just the thing for long trips, and certainly the long-term viability of the car made this an easy decision.
06-01-10, 02:57 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
When I was looking to trade for a new car a few months back, drove the Acura TL and the Genesis. Both nice cars and each had some features that I liked but handled PA's lousy roads like bricks. My problem was that I wanted a comfortable ride and was willing to give up some of the "corner carving" ability so near and dear to the enthusiast heart. The ES, on the other hand, rides very nicely with a quiet cabin. Just the thing for long trips, and certainly the long-term viability of the car made this an easy decision.
06-05-10, 07:23 PM
#22
ES and LaCrosse only.
I find the Genesis not really in the ES' class, it's really more upmarket competitor/bargain for the GS class. The LaCrosse on the other hand is definitely direct with the ES and here are some pics for comparison (courtesy of MSN auto). Taurus, not even in discussion...
The ES is indeed about $7K more comparably equiped, but you have to give the ES points for the fine details like the covers in the engine bay. What most reviewers miss is that they're driving the car either on a closed course, or outside for a very brief moment or snapshot in time. When you actually HAVE TO drive and live with the vehicle for a long period of time (say five years) then the devil in the details of the ES comes out and make the car more enjoyable to own and drive.
Look at the window switch, some have noted that it's straight from the "Toyota bin"... well, that's a pretty good bin and I'd rather take that then straight from the cheap plastic and under-designed bin...
The ES is indeed about $7K more comparably equiped, but you have to give the ES points for the fine details like the covers in the engine bay. What most reviewers miss is that they're driving the car either on a closed course, or outside for a very brief moment or snapshot in time. When you actually HAVE TO drive and live with the vehicle for a long period of time (say five years) then the devil in the details of the ES comes out and make the car more enjoyable to own and drive.
Look at the window switch, some have noted that it's straight from the "Toyota bin"... well, that's a pretty good bin and I'd rather take that then straight from the cheap plastic and under-designed bin...
Last edited by AlexusAnja; 06-05-10 at 07:26 PM.
06-06-10, 06:23 AM
#24
On another note they said the Infinity M was noisy at it's price point as well.
06-06-10, 06:53 AM
#26
Avalon?
Avalons? No, souped up Camrys. They use to and still do share the same platform. The powertrains are tuned differently however, and interiorexterior are obviously different also. Although the haters always continue to say "it's just an expensive Camry." 
06-06-10, 08:13 AM
#27
Good to hear the ES placing near the top in a C&D comparo, despite being more expensive than rivals. That being said, the ES fits the Lexus stereotype, quiet comfort etc., and while at least the authors of this comparo apparently were willing to focus on that for this cohort, for other Lexus models, that assumption can create different reactions.
It's also an interesting comparison with the photos from Yahoo Autos, although strangely their ES shots from 2007 to 2010 lack the navigation system. IMO, the navigation interior is the 'original' ES 350 design. A quick edit:
It's also an interesting comparison with the photos from Yahoo Autos, although strangely their ES shots from 2007 to 2010 lack the navigation system. IMO, the navigation interior is the 'original' ES 350 design. A quick edit:
Last edited by encore888; 06-06-10 at 08:17 AM.
06-06-10, 05:36 PM
#29
If it were not for two years ago when the LS430 prices dropped off the cliff, I'd probably have gotten either a new ES350 or GS350AWD. Almost pulled the trigger on the GS until I saw a CPO LS430 at the dealer and my love just went from there.
Have had the ES350 for a loaner a few times, it's obviously no LS, but it's a very good automobile nonetheless.
Have had the ES350 for a loaner a few times, it's obviously no LS, but it's a very good automobile nonetheless.
06-07-10, 01:34 PM
#30
I was glad to read I’m not the only one who things C&D favors domestic cars, or at least cars produced domestically which would explain both the Hyundai and Buick being on the list.
Regarding Hyundai reliability, back in 2005 I purchased a Elantra and an Accent for my mom and partner. The cars held up very well and we received great service however, I bought the cars with the expectation of keeping them until they die (or were killed as in the case of my mom’s totaled Elantra). The Accent was plagued with problems in the head light circuit and after the first 300 miles (no I didn’t forget a zero or two) the transmission went out and the car had to be towed. The Elantra had problems that didn’t bother my mom so she never got them fixed, like the electronic mirrors not working, and faded paint after only four years. She had to get a suspension component replaced after about three years but other then that it was just scheduled maintenance. I sold the accent after four years and 70K miles for 50% of what I paid for it. I negotiated well at the point of sale for both cars and paid a good deal less then invoice (which is why I bought them in the first place) So I guess if I had to make a point here it’d be that while everything was under warranty, there was a hassle associated with making the claims, spending time scheduling service, and dealing with the less then Lexus quality service department. Depreciation was not an issue with the experience I had with either car. My mom just replaced her 2005 Elantra with a 2010 so that should attest to the fact that she loved the car despite the lack of prestige, perceived resale value, or reliability.
I wish C&D would use the Ultra for comparison. I’ve had my 2007 ES350 Ultra for going on four years now, I look at it as a cheaper V6 alternative to the LS because it’s a quieter ride then the normal ES, less wind noise with the sun roof design, and the WOW factor is up a notch with the dual sun roof. In terms of handling, while I haven’t driven the other competitors, I have driven a number of cars with a soft suspension and I can attest to the competent handling of the Lexus, although soft, the rate of role and suspension travel is very predictable and linear – I suspect this is not the case on all the cars compared. Another point is I’d really like to see fuel efficiency tested by someone who’s trying to save gas. On the Hyundai’s I had they got the rated fuel efficiency if you drove them nice, on the Lexus, if you drive it nice it rewards you with better then 20% over the rated efficiency. I’ve got the itch for a change of cars myself but cannot justify it as every time I start looking at photo’s of new cars (I considered the LS and the V8 Genesis) I can see there's just too much value in my old ES - maybe if Lexus refreshes the ES line next year I'll be in the market.
Regarding Hyundai reliability, back in 2005 I purchased a Elantra and an Accent for my mom and partner. The cars held up very well and we received great service however, I bought the cars with the expectation of keeping them until they die (or were killed as in the case of my mom’s totaled Elantra). The Accent was plagued with problems in the head light circuit and after the first 300 miles (no I didn’t forget a zero or two) the transmission went out and the car had to be towed. The Elantra had problems that didn’t bother my mom so she never got them fixed, like the electronic mirrors not working, and faded paint after only four years. She had to get a suspension component replaced after about three years but other then that it was just scheduled maintenance. I sold the accent after four years and 70K miles for 50% of what I paid for it. I negotiated well at the point of sale for both cars and paid a good deal less then invoice (which is why I bought them in the first place) So I guess if I had to make a point here it’d be that while everything was under warranty, there was a hassle associated with making the claims, spending time scheduling service, and dealing with the less then Lexus quality service department. Depreciation was not an issue with the experience I had with either car. My mom just replaced her 2005 Elantra with a 2010 so that should attest to the fact that she loved the car despite the lack of prestige, perceived resale value, or reliability.
I wish C&D would use the Ultra for comparison. I’ve had my 2007 ES350 Ultra for going on four years now, I look at it as a cheaper V6 alternative to the LS because it’s a quieter ride then the normal ES, less wind noise with the sun roof design, and the WOW factor is up a notch with the dual sun roof. In terms of handling, while I haven’t driven the other competitors, I have driven a number of cars with a soft suspension and I can attest to the competent handling of the Lexus, although soft, the rate of role and suspension travel is very predictable and linear – I suspect this is not the case on all the cars compared. Another point is I’d really like to see fuel efficiency tested by someone who’s trying to save gas. On the Hyundai’s I had they got the rated fuel efficiency if you drove them nice, on the Lexus, if you drive it nice it rewards you with better then 20% over the rated efficiency. I’ve got the itch for a change of cars myself but cannot justify it as every time I start looking at photo’s of new cars (I considered the LS and the V8 Genesis) I can see there's just too much value in my old ES - maybe if Lexus refreshes the ES line next year I'll be in the market.
Last edited by safford197; 06-07-10 at 01:41 PM.