smarty666

I was hoping someone could help me with some Hunter Road Force Balancing questions I have as I'm having some balancing/alignment issues right now, after having new tires put on my ES350.

According to my local tire shop where I had my new MXV4s put on, there are two options with Road Force Balancing, one is having a regular balancing done, which is a cheaper price, and another option is having what they call a sport performance/high speed balancing done, which is a little bit more expensive per tire.

Does anyone know, who is familiar with Hunter equipment if there are two settings/types of road force balancing you can have done?

In addition, does anyone know what Straight Trak is? I noticed on the hunter website that not every dealership/shop that has a hunter road force balancer, offers a straight trak option so I wanted to find out what that is all about?

Much Appreciated!

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

I have been working with the Hunter GSP97XX series of balances essentially since they were introduced.

Regular Balance - exactly what it sounds like, adding weights, usually dynamically (inside and outside, or as close to outside as possible) - any balancer can do this, Hunters newer machines use something called SmartWeight, which reduces the overall amount of weight a wheel/tire combo will require to be added, through some calculations it does as to static versus dynamic imbalance

Road Force / Balance - This is not a high speed balance, all balancing is done at the same speed. When you use this option on the 97XX series Hunter machines, during the first portion of balancing, a load roller presses on the tire, simulating pressure from the road. The machine takes feedback measurements from the wheel and tire assembly. After the load roller measurements are taken, the machine will continue and spin the tire normally for a balance check. If the road force results turn out good (which varies depending on if it is standard passenger car, suv or light truck style tire), then the machine shows the result on the screen and prompts the user to continue balancing the tire. If the road force results aren't under the specifications for that type of tire, the machine goes to a different screen, prompting the user to take wheel runout measurements, in which a roller is placed in the bead area of the wheel on both sides, while the machine turns the wheel. Once these measurements are taken, the machine will suggest tire replacement (if the tire is showing to be the problem), wheel replacement, or, possibly turning the tire on the wheel to match the high and low spots of the tire and wheel as an assembly. If the tire requires turning, it is removed from the balancer, both beads are broken down, lube added, and spun on the wheel to align some marks the 97xx prompted the user to place. After all of this happens, it is placed back on the 97xx to be balanced. Sometimes, if wheel or tire replacement is suggested by the machine, the tire can still be turned on the wheel to make it better, but may not be perfect.

StraightTrak - this is an option on the 97xx series of Hunter balancers. It essentially adds a module to the machine which will tell the user if the tire and wheel has an affinity to pull to one side or the other. If you go through all of the prompts and tag wheels and tires, it will even tell you the best place to put each wheel and tire on the vehicle. There are a few downfalls here, such as directional tires - it doesn't know, so it can suggest putting them on the wrong side of the vehicle, etc. I usually don't use this option unless I am trying to diagnose a vehicle that has a pull, and also has good alignment numbers... It is a lot of work, I mean A LOT of work to do to every vehicle.

It really is an amazing machine, for sure, so much you can do with one, but, gotta be brutally honest - they are only as good as the person operating them. I've road force balanced thousands of tires and diagnosed hundreds of bent wheels, tire pulls, tire issues, etc with the machine, but it is not without faults - it is only as good as the information put into it, and it has to be properly calibrated regularly to ensure the best results...

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Oh, here's another thing... if the tires are already on your car and don't shake or pull, you won't benefit from having anything done other than balancing for maintenance over the life of the tires...

smarty666

Thanks so much for the information. This is the problem I have.

Just had brand new Michelin Primacy MXV4s put on my ES350 at 35k miles. The local tire shop where I put them on, told me and I quote, did a regular hunter road force balancing on the new tires at $13.00 per tire. The also offer a sport performance road force balancing at $18.00 per tire but I didn't need it because I don't drive a sports car like a Corvette, Porsche, etc.

The problem is, I'm having way too much vibration/shimmy coming through the steering wheel/pedals when I'm driving between 70-80 mph on the interstate. These top of the line tires should be smooth as silk at those speeds if they were properly balanced, just like the OEM Energy's were when they were new.

I think I need to have the sport performance/high speed road force balancing done to correct this.

In addition, the car is still pulling heavy to the left on all three lanes of the interstate so I need an alignment done.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Hah, omg, I would love to walk into their shop and have them explain to me the difference between regular road force balancing and "sport performance" road force balancing...

Here is the deal, take it back and say "my car shakes, fix it or get me tires that don't shake" Michelin offers a ride quality warranty for the first 2/32" of tread, so as long as the tires are within the first 2/32" of tread wear, as a Michelin dealer, that company will have to either replace tires as needed til they ride correctly, or fix the balance that they might have not done so well because you chose the cheaper balance.

edit: your pull may also be a tire issue... in fact on a front wheel drive vehicle, it almost always is... three alignment issues can cause a vehicle to pull: excessive difference in camber from one side to the other, excessive difference in caster from one side to the other, and something that isn't really a pull as much as it is the steering wheel not straight, and that is having steer ahead out of spec - some people think this is a pull, but its them holding the steering wheel straight and the car driving one direction or the other.

your car does not have adjustment from the factory for caster and probably camber as well... camber can usually be fixed if it needs to be by adding a cam bolt in place of one of the factory strut bolts... if caster is far out on one side, then something is bent... to check to see if it is a steer ahead issue, let go of the steering wheel on a relatively flat piece of road - vehicle still drives one direction or the other, then its not steer ahead... most likely, again, on a FWD vehicle, is a tire pull - FWD vehicles just generally don't pull (as much) due to differences in caster and camber the way RWD vehicles do... Here is where the 97xx would come in handy, though don't let them just put it on the back if it is a tire issue, remember at some point, you will want to rotate those tires... it's easy enough to check for without a 97xx, simply rotate the tires, pull goes away, it is a tire issue... the stat is somewhere around 1 in 1000 tires has a pull issue, so getting two tires on the same vehicle that pull is unlikely...

John U

Great information, Thanks!

unklexus

Interesting, I just had a set of MXV4's put on my 2011 last week. Immediately noticed shaking over 65, went back to Discount and had them re-balanced. Was told the machine must not have been calibrated when the tires were installed.

Still feel a bit of shaking/bouncing when at 70 or more. Original factory tires were worn down to the nub but were glass smooth at any speed.

A bad month for buying new tires I guess. Or all that new rubber on the road is bouncier.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Take it back... they will fix it or replace a tire if need be... Out of calibration balancers don't generally affect the outcome of the balance operation, only how difficult it is to get a "zero" reading on the balancer itself... you don't even need to add width or diameter data to a balancer to check balance on a tire, but you do, in order for it to tell you where and how much weight to add... generally when a wheel is not within .5 ounces balance after balance, it was a mounting issue and the wheel wasn't perfectly centered on the balancer... Couple other things can be at play here - if aftermarket wheels, could be a centering ring, if factory wheels, could be one that isn't perfectly round, etc...

Take it back and tell them it still shakes - they'll get it fixed... Don't delay too much, Michelin warrants roundness for the first 1 or 2/32" of tread only...

jcat_350

were they the S8 tires or the regular MXV4's? If they were S8s, get your money back NOW.

unklexus

Regular (?) Primacy MXV4's H rated.

Update: Went back to Discount and had the tires re-balanced on another machine for the 3rd time. Drove out onto the freeway, shook like a leaf at 65 again. Went home disgusted, pondered the situation, then set up appointment with Lexus dealer to check everything out since I did have the alignment done there after buying the tires.

Just got the car back from the dealer. They said that the tires had more than twice the weights needed in all the wrong places, and that the tires were perfect. Took it up to 85 and not a quiver. So called up Discount and to see if I can get my $77.00 dealer balancing charge out of them and tell them about their messed up machines. I feel sorry for everyone else buying tires from them right now.

By the way, other shops quoted force balancing at 39.00 a tire up to 220.00 for the set. Amazingly cheap price from the dealer, and they said they did it on a force machine. Next time I'm mail ordering!