dmroper

I've had a strange ongoing issue that seems to be related to every time I wash my 2008 ES350 (PBE). I do know that the windshield needs to be re-sealed, but it seems to me that there's something like a BCM/ECM that is getting wet. It doesn't always happen, but the trigger event is always related to a car wash. I'll see it stall immediately after putting it in to gear to pull out of the wash, and will sometimes show a number of other items of concern like the alarm going off, the ignition sailing to turn off, and check VCE light. I'm working on setting up a time to get to the dealership but wanted to check here to see if anyone on this same platform has experienced a similar issue. I think that I've pretty well qualified that it's related to moisture with the issue taking care of itself after a day or two in the sun, but I'm looking for any suggestions other than to not wash the thing. Any guidance or suggestions are appreciated. My hope is to have a better understanding of where things are located that might qualify as a possibility, any seals, areas that clearly could be affected by water, or any common issues.

I should also add that I can sometimes gas it to keep it from stalling as I shift it in to gear (sometimes it happens when starting to drive from a stopped position at a red light) and can drive it to get it off the street. Other than to wash the car where I can allow it to sit for a day or two like in the driveway, I'm hoping to get any ideas for what else to look at.I don't want to do any more damage by slamming it in to gear outside of an emergency situation when I need to get out of the way of incoming traffic.

dmroper

Apologies for the overlap and the edits, but I can also see (when driving through the forced air dryer portion of the car wash) that there is a poor seal around the bottom corner of the driver side windshield- water and air is forced through. I've considered replacing the windshield but was also curious if it's possible that the body ECM or other components in there under the driver side dash could be collecting moisture. It does not happen during rain or snow, but it does seem to be qualified as related to the car wash and that's about the area where the windshield seal is showing there's an issue. I'm new to posting on the forum and so apologies if this is duplicated. Feel free to ping me with any diagrams/pictures that help to show any conspicuous location for possible issues.

jagtoes

As a test experiment get some duct tape and tape up along the area where you think there is a water problem and then take it through the car wash. This may give you an indication of whether the windshield area is the problem. Have you seen any water under the dash where you believe it is coming in. Also when you drive out of the car wash have you opened the hood and looked to see how much water is in the engine compartment. Is the plastic cover over the fuse block wet.

dmroper

I was able to tape up enough that I couldn't visibly see air and water forced through during the dry cycle, but there definitely was water enough coming in to the floor near the parking brake pedal, and the behavior that I am typically seeing has started. It sounds like an unhealthy start, more ping then normal (high pitched whirring almost sounds like vacuum), and on shifting from park (sometimes immediately after starting) it will die. I can restart, but stalls either after sitting at idle for a few or immediately when putting in to gear. The expected behavior now is that I'll have to wait for it to dry out (thankfully I've a full day to go here at the office), but I'm not sure from where it would be coming unless it is coming in through the cowl area. And that fuse box under there, it could be quite an electrical mess in there with water..

So to summarize, water is coming in somehow when washing the car, clearly some water coming in from the outside far enough to actually splash water on to the driver side carpet. Popped the hood and there are no conspicuous indications where that water is coming from (all splash shields in place and almost no areas with the tiniest of droplets). The only place it looks to be coming from would be in the cowl, but I'm not sure how to gain access to see if there is maybe debris in what would be a necessary place for a drain.

Definitely will try to start it later in the day to avoid any damage before starting it again since I know it will dry up eventually, but definitely don't want to run it like that. I'm also fortunate to work within walking distance, and so I won't really be stranded and if so it doesn't affect my ability to get from A to B. And there's a nasty-sounding ping and whir that comes with the moisture, and aside from that tinging/rattling sound, the thing does seem to be smart enough to be killing the ignition with whatever it's doing. No DTCs, but they will sometimes show up later while trying to start again. Took some pics and video, but am very interested to see how that area drains from the cowl. I did recently have the airbag recall work done on the car and didn't have the issue beforehand, but I'm hopeful to find a good explanation and isn't a complicated fix that would see me having to r&r the dash or console.

Seriously considering doing a windshield or a sealer of some kind, but the source of water has to be pretty significant.

dmroper

I think I just breached 'can-of-worms' territory just by looking at and finding some scaley deposits on some of the fuses at the internal fuse box. Soapy car-wash water is what I expect (look at the red deposits on the outside of the fuse box!), but it makes me really nervous to think about how long and how severe the problem has become. Checked each of the fuses, circuit closed on each of them. The moisture definitely seems to be most concentrated on the door side of the carpet near the parking brake pedal, and so it's not clear enough if it's coming from the evaporator case- no moisture at all on the gas pedal side of things.. I've also looked over previous threads and have seen suggestions about the moon-roof and other drains, will be checking that out. What was different about the issue this time is that I'm now stuck in a no-start situation, with a nice ozone sort-of smell that I believe I've confirmed is concentrated around the starter. Since the car- when having this problem after a car wash- would engage the starter on its own from time to time (after the engine was stopped, not touching the starer button at all), I think it's possible that my battery might just be completely discharged (it is at 75% or below currently, trickle charging in progress), and/or the starter could easily be burned up since it smells like the old electric trains I used to have.. I also picked up a replacement starter just in case charging the battery doesn't work, but I'm trying to think positive that the battery was simply discharged with the starter likely having engaged off and on for some time while I was inside at work. Thankfully the starter is easily accessible and replaced.Testing the relays, though, that will have to be another day when there's more time and opportunity.

Definitely not going to experiment with washing the car for a while, but I do have some good ideas what I can check inside and outside of having to R&R the dash. Shoot, but can you imagine how long that water had to have been running in down there to cause deposits like that?

ph0bolus

Hey I know this is an old topic, but did you ever find out where the water was coming in from?

I've got the same issue on my isf, and it's at the point where it's starting up, but immediately dying. With the power steering, abs, and brake lights coming on. All this happens after I washed the exterior my car.

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