Next-Gen Lexus ES (ES350 and ES300h confirmed)
04-04-12, 04:40 PM
#586
he said early 2014? that kind of sucks, i hoped that we will see all of these cars sooner than that, then LS might truly only get an facelift this fall... sucks for LS.
04-04-12, 04:43 PM
#587
Moderator
04-04-12, 04:56 PM
#588
I cant believe they increased the legroom because the current ES is already cavernous compared to the GS. How is it possible that this has much better proportions, usuable space, and pretty much the same features while costing thousands less. I cant wait to get one as a loaner!
04-04-12, 05:02 PM
#590
Lexus Fanatic
I had already mentioned this a while back: the new ES moves to the Avalon wheelbase, altough the Avalon will be a few inches longer.
Tomorrow, expect to witness an Avalon hybrid option.
Also, down the road, expect to hear and announcement that the new ES will be made in Kentucky.
Tomorrow, expect to witness an Avalon hybrid option.
Also, down the road, expect to hear and announcement that the new ES will be made in Kentucky.
04-04-12, 05:05 PM
#591
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04-04-12, 05:24 PM
#593
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The next generation ES is not going to made in Kentucky anytime soon. If it's gonna be made in North America it will most likely be built in the Canadian plant alongside the RX...and the RX sells twice as much as the ES in just the U.S. alone...
04-04-12, 05:25 PM
#594
04-04-12, 06:41 PM
#595
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Wonderful job, the car just looks awesome 
! Great to see so much positive reaction, even from those that are often Lexus haters and critics 
.
That interior truly is awesome for the class.
Between this and the new Avalon, the full-size sedan competition is going to be facing intense pressure.
I'm a bit surprised that the rear suspension didn't change to a layout similar to the RX and CT, but now I understand why; to keep clear differentiation between the IS, GS, and ES.
Some points about all the (unjustified) hate about the GS:
- first off, Akio Toyoda said he "didn't want" the GS originally just because of how poor of an effort the 3GS was, compared to the 2GS it went backwards in several areas, and of course compared to the competition. Akio Toyoda also said it to awaken the passion amongst Toyota and Lexus ranks, to "unleash the dragon" so to speak and demand a better GS. Akio is a smart man, he obviously understands Lexus needs the GS globally to be considered a strong and prestigious luxury brand. The ES alone can't do it, and without the GS the gap between the ES and LS would be too big.
- the REASON why the GS was never a huge competition to the Germans that dominate the class is because it was always a niche product. The 1GS was limited in terms of options and powertains, and was a very small seller. The 2GS was a big surprise and made a big splash in the segment. Then Lexus made the huge mistake of letting the 2GS life cycle drag on for too long, and when they debuted the overdue 3GS, it was good for a while but they didn't do enough to keep it updated or competitive. As mentioned above, the 3GS also went backwards in some regards to the 2GS. While to many of us, the 2GS and 3GS styling was unique, it was also alienating to many people. Finally, the GS was never a razor sharp performer up until now. The 2GS did offer a best-in-class engine for a while, but then was overshadowed by the Germans. The 3GS compromised ride and handling too much, as well as practicality. It wasn't class leading in terms of ride, handling and practicality, and it didn't offer enough versus the ES.
- the new 4GS is ALL ABOUT competing DIRECTLY in the midsize prestige luxury sedan segment. It's no longer a niche player. The exterior and interior is all about business/practicality first, and style second. While many long-time GS fans don't like this, it was a NEEDED change for the continued survival, prosperity, and success of the GS in the future in this segment. The 3-box design was NEEDED from a practicality standpoint to compete with the Germans. While it's not as swoopy as previous GS designs, it still looks like a GS and like a Lexus. More importantly, it offers FAR more practicality than the 3GS. Additionally, handling, response were greatly improved as was ride comfort. Some of the options and technology in the 4GS are NOT shared with the new ES.
- I'm very certain Lexus is going to expand the GS range to further differentiate the GS from the ES. As long as Lexus continues to regularly expand and update the GS line (and most importantly keep the GS a focused sport sedan), then interest and sales will remain consistent.
- The next-gen LS will be in a whole other world compared to the GS and ES. That will mean clear differentiation between all the Lexus sedans.
- With the 4GS being so business-like in terms of exterior and interior, that NOW gives Lexus the ability to make a niche model fastback-coupe style of a sedan, which is what many of you GS fans probably wanted to see from the 4GS.
To those who are questioning why buy a new GS having seen the new ES, here are some reasons:
1.) the GS has rear seat controls which the ES will not have
2.) the GS has the huge best-in-class Nav screen, the ES will not get that screen
3.) the GS performance, handling and response is FAR sharper than what this new ES will have. The 4GS has best-in-class handling, better than the 5 Series, so no way will the ES come close to that.
4.) the GS has those incredible power seats with incredible adjustability, which I am very confident the ES will not get
5.) the GS has the specially tuned intake and engine acoustics which give it an aggressive sound and growl. Reading the ES press release, they designed the ES engine to be quiet and refined. So Lexus clearly differentiated between the character of the engine on the GS and ES.
6.) Even considering how awesome the new ES interior is, the GS interior is still a clear step above. The GS interior has higher craftsmanship and better materials and just looks more expensive than the ES interior. This is exactly how it's supposed to be.
7.) I am willing to bet real money that when people go to a Lexus dealer and drive the GS, and drive the ES they will see, hear, and feel a clear difference between driving the two.
8.) The GS hybrid has the available full LED headlamps, while the ES hybrid does not.
I will end my thoughts with this; can the new ES do this?
The answer is, definitely not.
! Great to see so much positive reaction, even from those that are often Lexus haters and critics .That interior truly is awesome for the class.
Between this and the new Avalon, the full-size sedan competition is going to be facing intense pressure.
I'm a bit surprised that the rear suspension didn't change to a layout similar to the RX and CT, but now I understand why; to keep clear differentiation between the IS, GS, and ES.
Some points about all the (unjustified) hate about the GS:
- first off, Akio Toyoda said he "didn't want" the GS originally just because of how poor of an effort the 3GS was, compared to the 2GS it went backwards in several areas, and of course compared to the competition. Akio Toyoda also said it to awaken the passion amongst Toyota and Lexus ranks, to "unleash the dragon" so to speak and demand a better GS. Akio is a smart man, he obviously understands Lexus needs the GS globally to be considered a strong and prestigious luxury brand. The ES alone can't do it, and without the GS the gap between the ES and LS would be too big.
- the REASON why the GS was never a huge competition to the Germans that dominate the class is because it was always a niche product. The 1GS was limited in terms of options and powertains, and was a very small seller. The 2GS was a big surprise and made a big splash in the segment. Then Lexus made the huge mistake of letting the 2GS life cycle drag on for too long, and when they debuted the overdue 3GS, it was good for a while but they didn't do enough to keep it updated or competitive. As mentioned above, the 3GS also went backwards in some regards to the 2GS. While to many of us, the 2GS and 3GS styling was unique, it was also alienating to many people. Finally, the GS was never a razor sharp performer up until now. The 2GS did offer a best-in-class engine for a while, but then was overshadowed by the Germans. The 3GS compromised ride and handling too much, as well as practicality. It wasn't class leading in terms of ride, handling and practicality, and it didn't offer enough versus the ES.
- the new 4GS is ALL ABOUT competing DIRECTLY in the midsize prestige luxury sedan segment. It's no longer a niche player. The exterior and interior is all about business/practicality first, and style second. While many long-time GS fans don't like this, it was a NEEDED change for the continued survival, prosperity, and success of the GS in the future in this segment. The 3-box design was NEEDED from a practicality standpoint to compete with the Germans. While it's not as swoopy as previous GS designs, it still looks like a GS and like a Lexus. More importantly, it offers FAR more practicality than the 3GS. Additionally, handling, response were greatly improved as was ride comfort. Some of the options and technology in the 4GS are NOT shared with the new ES.
- I'm very certain Lexus is going to expand the GS range to further differentiate the GS from the ES. As long as Lexus continues to regularly expand and update the GS line (and most importantly keep the GS a focused sport sedan), then interest and sales will remain consistent.
- The next-gen LS will be in a whole other world compared to the GS and ES. That will mean clear differentiation between all the Lexus sedans.
- With the 4GS being so business-like in terms of exterior and interior, that NOW gives Lexus the ability to make a niche model fastback-coupe style of a sedan, which is what many of you GS fans probably wanted to see from the 4GS.
To those who are questioning why buy a new GS having seen the new ES, here are some reasons:
1.) the GS has rear seat controls which the ES will not have
2.) the GS has the huge best-in-class Nav screen, the ES will not get that screen
3.) the GS performance, handling and response is FAR sharper than what this new ES will have. The 4GS has best-in-class handling, better than the 5 Series, so no way will the ES come close to that.
4.) the GS has those incredible power seats with incredible adjustability, which I am very confident the ES will not get
5.) the GS has the specially tuned intake and engine acoustics which give it an aggressive sound and growl. Reading the ES press release, they designed the ES engine to be quiet and refined. So Lexus clearly differentiated between the character of the engine on the GS and ES.
6.) Even considering how awesome the new ES interior is, the GS interior is still a clear step above. The GS interior has higher craftsmanship and better materials and just looks more expensive than the ES interior. This is exactly how it's supposed to be.
7.) I am willing to bet real money that when people go to a Lexus dealer and drive the GS, and drive the ES they will see, hear, and feel a clear difference between driving the two.
8.) The GS hybrid has the available full LED headlamps, while the ES hybrid does not.
I will end my thoughts with this; can the new ES do this?
The answer is, definitely not.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 04-04-12 at 07:17 PM.
04-04-12, 06:45 PM
#596
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Posts: n/a
Lexus simply nailed this all the way around. It looks luxurious, it also looks sporty. The interior looks first rate. 40 MPG might lose to the MKZ hybrid but still is fantastic.
I honestly don't understand the simplicity of selling a good looking car. This will sell on looks alone.
The hybrid like the CT gets a "red" sport mode with a tach replacing the battery meter.
I can't imagine how roomier the rear is. I find the current ES rear very very roomy. To think its bigger.
Glad to see Lexus using a nice stretch of wood on all the doors.
My least favorite parts are the front grill edge (but I understand why they did it, so it isn't exactly like the GS) and the dash tries to blend curves of the RX with the straightness of the German influence.
I don't understand how on earth the "flagship" RLX is better than this FWD for FWD form.
I honestly don't understand the simplicity of selling a good looking car. This will sell on looks alone.
The hybrid like the CT gets a "red" sport mode with a tach replacing the battery meter.
I can't imagine how roomier the rear is. I find the current ES rear very very roomy. To think its bigger.
Glad to see Lexus using a nice stretch of wood on all the doors.
My least favorite parts are the front grill edge (but I understand why they did it, so it isn't exactly like the GS) and the dash tries to blend curves of the RX with the straightness of the German influence.
I don't understand how on earth the "flagship" RLX is better than this FWD for FWD form.
04-04-12, 07:33 PM
#597
Lexus Champion
There's going to be a lot of interesting choices for buyers in the entry level luxury segment. New ES, Lincoln MXZ (separate thread), Azera (at a lower price point), along with Genesis, LaCrosse (feeling a little dated already with all of the new entries) and others.
04-04-12, 07:55 PM
#598
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04-04-12, 07:56 PM
#599
Lexus Test Driver
Ive said it so many times before today but the new ES is absolutely stunning. This very well could be my next vehicle...Lexus really went all out and nailed it this time!
It proves that a FWD car can have presence and be aggressive looking.
The interior is sumptuous and detailed. The Lexus interior is really what separates it from knock off competitors like Buick. This is the finest midsize luxury sedan in the world.
I cannot wait to drive it!
Im so glad to be excited about the ES again. The 5ES just never did it for me, and we all know how much i love the 4ES
It proves that a FWD car can have presence and be aggressive looking.
The interior is sumptuous and detailed. The Lexus interior is really what separates it from knock off competitors like Buick. This is the finest midsize luxury sedan in the world.
I cannot wait to drive it!
Im so glad to be excited about the ES again. The 5ES just never did it for me, and we all know how much i love the 4ES
04-04-12, 08:11 PM
#600
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Just want to add that it is amazing how good the ES looks considering it is FWD. It has almost LS-like proportions, and it has a strong RWD styling feel to it, even though it's FWD. It's awesome Lexus pulled this off, while other brands struggle with FWD proportions.