LexBob2

I too have heard late-August for the launch.

Most of the reviews I have read seem generally positive. Nothing ground breaking but a solid evolution of the ES. My guess is that Lexus expectations of 60,000 in sales initially is realisitc for the first couple of model years. It will do well.

PS, has anyone seen pictures of the upcoming Lincoln MKZ that's due out later this year? IMO It's a real looker with a lot of unique features. It will be a competitor to the new gen ES.

LexPaul

Yes, I have seen pics of the 2013 MKZ, Overall it's not a bad design, but IMO it's kind of bland, the rear end didn't change that much from the previous model which I never liked that much, the front end looks overdone on the 'oval' side. Interior is an improvement over the last model. Some reviewers have picked the MKZ over the ES in overall design/looks, but the ES will as you say should meet it's projected target sales. My money is on the ES.

A car that really gets my attention is the 2013 Cadillac XTS. I saw it in March at the Auto show in ATL. This car is absolutely gorgeous inside and out. GM brought home the bacon with this one IMO. Now this car IMO could give the ES some serious competition, but I think it's target is the Chrysler 300, Acura RL, Lincoln MKS, Volvo S80 and Buick Lacrosse?

LexBob2

I've only seen pictures of the new Caddy, but it does look nice. I'll be interested to see how big it is. I like the size of the ES. Not too small and not too big. I think the base XTS is $45k so it will probably hit $50k pretty easy.

SW17LS

The XTS is HUGE, signifiantly larger than the ES...

Fully loaded XTS is $60k+ I agree, its an impressive looking car but its not really in the same category as the ES.

LexBob2

I agree that the XTS is in a different category than the ES. As LexPaul mentioned It will probably compete with the Lincoln MKS, RL, Chrysler 300 and other big cars in that $50-$60k range.

The ES rivals are still the MKZ, LaCrosse, TL etc. and cars like that in the $40-$45k or so range.

SW17LS

I would say the Chrysler 300 competes with the ES. Its about $45k fully loaded...

LexPaul

I agree that price wise the ES and 300 are close competitors, but IMO most buyers would cross shop the 300 with maybe a Genesis, RL and indeed the XTS. The XTS is sharp, but to clarify my reply to LexBob, it would not compete with the ES. If I was looking outside of Lexus, then the XTS would be a model "I" would consider. While GM has made great strides, when it comes to quality/reliability Lexus is still king of the hill IMO....

LexBob2

A little off topic, but since it's been mentioned a few times here - Today I stopped by a Cadillac dealer and took a look at a couple of new XTS.

Very nice and has been mentioned very BIG too. Interesting electronics all over the car.

The sales rep said a majority of the cars they'll receive will be in the $62k MSRP range and that's considered a nicely equipped, but not fully loaded model. Probably not my cup of tea from a size and price standpoint but interesting nonetheless.

SW17LS

Yeah $62k you're within $5k of an LS460, which I'd rather have.

I shopped the 300, as well as the Genesis. I think both the new 300 (which wasnt out) and the Genesis are way more car than the ES for the money, I just think the ES is a better buy because of resale and dealer service, and the lease was way better. I don't think people looking at a $40-45k ES, 300 or Genesis are also going to shop a $50k RL or a $60k XTS.

Now, there will be an XTS that is mid 40s I believe...depends on the package. Its going to have a big variety of options.