vsk

Folks, first time poster here (been reading the forums for a while though), and would like some advice.
I was quoted the following price for a new 2014 ES350.
ES350 with following features:

Wood & Leather Trimmed Shift **** and Heated Wood &
Leather Trimmed Steering Wheel
Rain Sensing Wipers
Premium Package:
Intuitive Parking Assist
Hard Disk Drive Navigation system with Backup Camera,
Heated and Ventilated Front Seats
17" Split 10-Spoke Wheels w/Liquid Graphite Finish
Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert

Total MSRP $43,110.00
Costco Price is $41600.

My question is, is this a fair price? It is difficult to get KBB pricing on 2014 cars.
I would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance.

vsk

Guys, any opinion on this offer?
Also, I got the invoice from the dealer for the car which quotes the invoice price of $39,900 - which is 700$ less than the Costco price.
Thanks.

mikeys350

Hey guys, been reading the forum here for a few weeks now. In the process of looking for a 2014 es350 for my wife. Been following some of the price points posted here in the past. Today was the first day I actually sat and talked pricing for one on the way home from visiting some family in Riverside.

Stopped at Longo Lexus halfway home and after a quick test drive and asking the salesman for invoice price, I ended with a price of 40k even plus ttl. Left the dealer and they called me with that "final offer" before I drove the final 2 hours home. Mainly wanted a price point to go off of for negotiating here locally this week and online at other dealerships. Here are details on the car.

2014 es350
Luxary package
Blind spot monitor
18" wheels liquid graphite color
Hid headlamps
Power rear sunshade
Navigation system
Intuitive park assist
Rain sensing wipers with deicer
Wood leathet trimmed shift **** and steering
Total accessories = 7,135
Destination 910

Total sticker price =$44,515

I asked him for invoice and he stated invoice at $42,193



I didn't even throw in the fact of a trade in for my wifes 2012 equinox ltz. My main concerns and questions are

1. Is the 42k or so he quoted me of invoice what most of you talk about when comparing how close to invoice price you obtained?

2. Should I have jumped on the 40k before ttl offer?

I was trying to get them down to about 39k flat. Without really knowing what price point I should even be aiming for.

Pretty sure I'll be buying within the next week or two.

lesz

"Good prices" will vary by geographic area, and, early in the 2014 model year, I'm not sure what the vehicles are selling for related to invoice, but I can tell you that the salesperson was not being honest with regard to the invoice price that he quoted. Invoice on an ES is a bit below 91% of the sticker price of the vehicle. Thus, the invoice on the vehicle that you were looking at would have been a bit below $40,500. Also note that the selling price related to invoice is meaningless unless it is considered in respect to finance terms, lease terms, trade in, and other factors that dealers can use to pad their profit margin. I would be a bit suspicious of the $40,000 offer because, even in areas where pricing tends to be more favorable to the customer, I can't imagine them selling a 2014 vehicle at $500 below invoice this early in the model year. Again, if that is the price, it is likely that the dealer is using some other means to pad his/her profit.

Lexusxoxo

I think 40k was a great price for a 2014. $2193.00 below invoice is pretty strong. Think I might have took that deal..
Getting towards end of the month.. You always get better deals at the end of month.

lesz

But it is not $2193 below invoice. The dealer was not being honest. Invoice on that vehicle is around $40,500. If the salesperson can't be honest about what the invoice is, I'd question what else he/she is not being honest about. The most skilled (and slimy) car sales people are the ones who can have a buyer leave the dealership thinking that he/she got a great deal while the reality is that the sale was "great" for the dealership. If a salesperson is offering a 2014 below invoice at this time in the model year and if he/she is lying about what the invoice is, I would be confident in guessing that he/she is using some other less than up front means of padding profit. Either the trade in is being significantly undervalued or their are bad lease terms or bad finance terms, or there are excessive dealer add-ons, but something is likely not right about the deal.

mikeys350

I asked him what invoice was on that specific car and that's the number he showed me off his screen. I know not to trust salesmen about too much they say. I knew going into the dealership I was not going to bring one home.

I never mentioned a trade in to him so don't think he was going to pad his profit that way. I also told him I would be usimg my own financing. How do I know what the real invoice price is for a lexus im looking at? From what we read online, Longo lexus is one of the biggest lexus dealerships in the area. They sure did have a massive selection of cars at their dealership too. I'm sure they make their profit in volume of sales.


Being said, 40k flat for that 2014 and options is a price point I'll try to use and hopefully beat if possible. when you day about 91% of sticker price, is sticker price mentioned the final sticker number after options and destination charges??

Lexusxoxo

Just ask the Sales Manager to see the invoice.
Also email John Coon at Newport Lexus.. Bought my ES300h from him. I was very happy with the deal I got. He doesnt play the numbers game.. He will give you his best deal upfront.
Won't hurt to email. johncoon@newportlexus.com

lesz

The invoice price of the base vehicle for the ES is between 90% and 91% of the sticker price. The invoice price of most ES options is also between 90% and 91% of the price on the sticker. So, if you take about 91% of the total price for the vehicle and options and add the destination charge, you should be very close to the invoice price.

Without being there, I can't tell with 100% certainty what the dealer was doing, but I'm still guessing that, if you were ready to write out the check, you would find that the salesperson was not being honest about something. Again, we already know that he/she was not being honest about the invoice price.

It is not unheard of for (unscrupulous) dealers to prepare their own "fake invoices". Unless the customer knows what a genuine invoice looks like, he/she can well believe that those alleged invoices are real when, in fact, they show a much higher price than the true invoice.

mikeys350

I'm going to spend the day emailing a few different dealerships within a 3 hour drive to bakersfield, ca. What does the "real" invoice sheet look like if you dont mind me asking. Just want to know what to look for. Thanks for the help guys. been on various other car forums for years and can tell this is a good one to join for lexus info.

vsk

Sorry for the repost. Any opinions on this offer?

I was quoted the following price for a new 2014 ES350.
ES350 with following features:

Wood & Leather Trimmed Shift **** and Heated Wood &
Leather Trimmed Steering Wheel
Rain Sensing Wipers
Premium Package:
Intuitive Parking Assist
Hard Disk Drive Navigation system with Backup Camera,
Heated and Ventilated Front Seats
17" Split 10-Spoke Wheels w/Liquid Graphite Finish
Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert

Total MSRP $43,110.00
Invoice Price: @39700.
Costco Price is $41600. (700 above Invoice).
This is in Portland, OR.

My question is, is this a fair price? It is difficult to get KBB pricing on 2014 cars.
I would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance.

lesz

I'm not sure how to describe the difference between what a genuine invoice and one made up by the dealer would look, but I'm not sure that you need to be able to see the difference. If you just make the quick 90% calculation for and ES, it should get you very close to the real invoice price, and, if the dealership shows you something purported to be an invoice and it is within about $50 either way of your 90% calculation, you are likely to be seeing a real invoice. If, on the other hand, the dealer shows you something that is, say, $2000 off from your 90% calculation, you can be confident that they are not being straight with you.

Also know that the invoice is not a particularly meaningful number. It does not represent true dealer cost or profit for the vehicle. Between hold backs from the manufacturer and other incentives, the dealership has significant room for profit below the invoice price, but also understand that the dealership is entitled to make a fair profit. About all that the invoice price does is to give you a basis of comparison between what you are paying and what others might be paying. Again, though, even that comparison can be quite deceiving. Two people can think that they are paying the same price relative to invoice, but, depending on financing terms, lease terms, administrative processing add-ons, dealer installed accessories, extended warranties sold by the dealership, trade-in valuation,and a number of other factors, the real prices paid by the two buyers can be quite different. As I said earlier, the skilled salesperson is the one who can get the buyer to think that he/she has taken the dealer to the cleaners, while the reality is that the dealership has taken the customer to the cleaners.

lesz

Per my other posts, the invoice price appears to be accurate (if you have included the transportation charge). Unless I'm missing something, though, the Costco price is $1700 over invoice and not $700 over. Without being familiar with your particular market, it really isn't possible to judge whether or not that it is good price because there can be wide variation from one geographic area to another. And, as I've said in other posts, the price that the dealer is, on the surface, asking, can be meaningless if the dealership is padding its profits with unfavorable finance charges, unfavorable lease terms, undervaluing a trade in, adding on dealer installed options, selling you an extended warranty, etc. The only way that price comparisons can, with assurance, be compared is if two buyers are both doing a straight cash deal with no trade in, no financing, no lease, etc. Keeping that in mind, with a straight cash deal, I'm not sure how much better than the numbers you have stated you are going to do this early in the model year.

vsk

@lesz,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I had mis-quoted the invoice price. It is $40900.

Total MSRP $43,110.00
Invoice Price: @40900.
Costco Price is $41600. (700 above Invoice).

I am not planning to lease and there is no trade-in involved. The dealer did offer an extended warranty for $2500 for 8 yrs/100K (over the manufacturer's 4yr/50K miles). Is that a fair price or are they marking it up there?
I have not asked for financing charges yet but they are offering me 2.99% APR and said it will be lower if I put down 20% (which I plan to). Any other suggestions? Or should I just go with it?

vsk

Actually 1 more question.

While at the dealership, I saw another car which was used as a loaner car by the dealer.
It has same features and packages as mentioned above. It is 2013 ES350 with 12K miles and price is around $36000. This is Certified Pre-owned.

Does anyone have experience with dealer-used loaner cars? Since there is no big difference in 2013 and 2014 ES350s, and the mileage is low, I am considering it. The financing offered is better for CPO car (0% for 3 yrs and 1.99% above 3 yrs) which ends up saving some more money there too.

Thanks for all your advice, I appreciate it.