uicandrew

Ah. I think your initial post made it seem like the accord materials were better than the lexus

amphipri0n

I think that is what he is saying, there are specific elements he mentioned that he felt were better made in the 2005 Accord than the 2013 es:

"I just want to clear that I am comparing a 2005 Accord materials with 2013 ES300h materials and nothing else. For example the buttons to open trunk, hood and gas cap. Sunroof switches etc"

SW17LS

Eh, I dunno. The A6 and GS are different, the A6 is a very nice car, very comfortable, easy to drive. Its not as sporty as the GS, rides a little more similarly to the ES. It depends on what you're looking for, you may very well like the A6 better than the GS.

As for the Accord vs the ES. There is no doubt the luxury touches are better in the ES, things like the quality of the leather, real wood vs fake wood, the nuluxe stitched dash, the quality of the readouts and displays.

However, I would say that materials such as the door panels, lower dash panels, window switchgear and some other small interior bits are better quality in my buddy's 2011 Accord than they are in the 2013 ES. The Accord is a very high quality car, its not luxurious per se, but overall material quality is very good. You can't assess quality from a photograph. For instance, the previous generation Accord has MUCH better materials than whats found in a Camry, I haven't seen the new Accord to see if thats changed, but I bet it hasn't.

I don't say that to be a hater, I'm not a hater I love these cars and this company, I've driven the Lexus ES for going on 10 years now, but there is absolutely a reduction in material quality from one generation to the next, with quality reaching a peak between 02-06. This is a HUGE problem with Toyotas to the point where I can honestly say I would not purchase any Toyota branded vehicle today, there are better quality vehicles out there without question in every segment. Modern Toyota material quality is awful.

I'm sorry to see it trickling up into the Lexus line...all you have to do is tap the materials in the 2013 with your fingernails and you can feel the difference from the previous car.

KennyLexus

Ahmedabad,

I would have to put Lexus service center about (2) notches above the Audi service center only because the Audi dealership also had Bentley and Porsche customers so the servicing was by appointment only. The Audi service manager put me in Audi loaners my first (2) services but after that I had to pay for a rental vehicle if servicing was going to take more than a day. With Lexus, there isn't much waiting to get your car serviced and they provide me with a loaner if servicing takes more than a day. During my recent service, I was given a 2013 RX... man, that thing has a nice smooooth ride. I had it for (2) days and was very impressed with the ride and like the new joystick info thingy...but I digress. Also, Lexus has a really nice waiting area; the Audi dealership not so much. However, the Audi service manager was cool with me modding my A3...which I did quite a bit. I have no intention of modding my '13 ES300h...much

jetman

I have to agree with the above posts saying that the material quality of the ES has gone down in the last few years. But, in order to understand why, all you have to do is look at the historical value of the yen per dollar:

2002 125.39
2003 115.93
2004 108.19
2005 110.22
2006 116.30
2007 117.75
2008 103.36
2009 93.57
2010 87.78
2011 79.81
today 78.19

As an entry-level luxury vehicle, Lexus realizes that they have to keep the purchase price in the low to mid 40K range or they'll price themselves out of the market. The main way to keep the price down is to use lower-quality materials. They can't cut corners in obvious places and still maintain their reputation as a luxury brand. This is why you see lower quality plastics in places like the lower door panels, and why the engine no longer has a cover on it - these are places where the cost-cutting is less evident, at least at first-glance. I'm sure that there are other places where cost-cutting has taken place that we're not even aware of. It's hard to blame Lexus for their decision. After all, they're in business to make money. If you want top-quality materials all around, I guess you'll have to step up to the GS (and pay about $15K more as well). That being said, IMHO the ES is still a high quality vehicle with great design. The materials might not be as good as they once were, but the ES is still a luxury vehicle in my book.

One thing Toyota is considering, and I don't blame them, is moving ES production to North America. By building here (and using more North American sourced parts) they should be able to control costs a little better and avoid having to downgrade the materials more. Of course, Toyota would have to figure out the cost of building a new factory which can get unbelievably expensive...

If you want to judge North American built Toyota quality, you need look no further than the Avalon. I considered buying one before I chose my ES 350 (the newly-designed 2013's aren't out yet and I wanted something a little more up-to-date). The 2012 Avalon is extremely comfortable and seems to use very good materials (it's a huge step above a Camry) and even has some features that the ES is lacking (cooled seats - not ventilated, like the ES, for one). The Avalon is about as close to being a Lexus as it comes. I would even venture to say that I would prefer a 2012 Avalon to a 2012 ES, dollar for dollar (the Avalon is about $5K less). If Toyota can put this kind of workmanship into a North American built Lexus ES then I'm all for it...

SW17LS

Yeah, you can't blame them. Business is business. I too agree about the North American production...

jollick

I wonder if the new plastics are just a product of being more Eco friendly using plant oils instead of fossil oils.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

the braking is different in the hybrid, since it tries to recover the energy normally lost during braking with the electric motor. It definitely has a different feel

jollick

I have found that after a week or two you get used to it and no longer notice a big difference unless you get into a non hybrid, especially an older car. Then you will feel you need too much pressure to slow it down.

SW17LS

I don't buy that...its to save cost.