Loaner Car: 2013 ES 350
#16
Maybe its just me, but the older Camry based ES is in no way a quieter and smoother ride than the new Avalon based ES. And yes I have driven both many times. dunno, call me crazy.
and to agree with the others, to compare an ES to an LS is laughable.... lolololol
-Mike
#17
Now that's coming from the LS boys who say the ES is not lux enough nor quiet. Then you read the posts from the IS boys that say the ES isn't firm, nor sporty enough. Most people in this forum think the ES is just right for them.
Just my 2 cents.
Art
Just my 2 cents.
Art
#18
I personally think the 2013 and the 07-12 drive almost identically. I have read in reviews and from some others on here that they think the 2013 is louder and harder riding, but I never saw that.
The ES is still Camry based, since the Avalon is also still Camry based. Its longer, thats about all.
The ES is still Camry based, since the Avalon is also still Camry based. Its longer, thats about all.
#19
I had an '11 ES and to me the '13 drives quite differently (better). I like the suspension better. I think the biggest difference I notice is that the '13 requires much less steering correction than the '11 (it tracks much better at all speeds, slow and fast).
"The ES is still Camry based" What exactly does this mean?
"The ES is still Camry based" What exactly does this mean?
#20
I do agree the new electronic power steering is very nice, but from a ride quality and noise isolation standpoint, I never saw much difference in all the ones I drove.
The basic architecture, powertrain, and suspension setup is shared with the Camry, always has been for the ES. Its on the "Avalon platform" now, but that just means its on a stretched Camry platform which is all the Avalon platform is. Suspension components, design, basic structural members and design, and powertrain are still shared with the Camry, as they are on the Avalon.
People always say thats a bad thing, but really its not. Utilization of the Camry platform is what allows them to build a car as good as the ES at that price point.
In comparison to an LS, the LS has its own platform that is much stiffer, has a more sophisticated and better performing suspension setup as well as more heft, which delivers a significantly more stable and quiet ride.
BUT...that comes at a $35,000 higher price tag...
"The ES is still Camry based" What exactly does this mean?
People always say thats a bad thing, but really its not. Utilization of the Camry platform is what allows them to build a car as good as the ES at that price point.
In comparison to an LS, the LS has its own platform that is much stiffer, has a more sophisticated and better performing suspension setup as well as more heft, which delivers a significantly more stable and quiet ride.
BUT...that comes at a $35,000 higher price tag...
Last edited by SW17LS; 01-11-13 at 06:54 AM.
#21
"If it ain't broke..."
I owned a 2007 and 2009 Camry (liked both very much), and decided to upgrade to the 2011 ES350 instead of the 2012 Camry as I did not like it. I was quite impressed with the '11 ES in spite of it being a 'Camry', as all my friends were quick to point out (I totally disagree). I find the 2013 ES300h totally different and improved in just about every way. Shared or not, the ES350/300h for 2013 are exceptional vehicles and represents a good value in today's marketplace (IMHO).
I owned a 2007 and 2009 Camry (liked both very much), and decided to upgrade to the 2011 ES350 instead of the 2012 Camry as I did not like it. I was quite impressed with the '11 ES in spite of it being a 'Camry', as all my friends were quick to point out (I totally disagree). I find the 2013 ES300h totally different and improved in just about every way. Shared or not, the ES350/300h for 2013 are exceptional vehicles and represents a good value in today's marketplace (IMHO).
Last edited by ElliotB; 01-31-13 at 02:57 AM.
#22
We looked at the ES because we were impressed with a buddy's 2011. Then after research, we ended up with the 300h, our first hybrid. The one difference in the 300h and the 2011 that is taking getting used to (that is really a difference in hybrid/non-hybrid) is that when the gas engine is not engaged the engine silence causes the wind/road noise of passing cars to be more noticeable.
With regard to comparison with the LS a comment that I saw, and I may have read it here on another thread, was that the ES is 2/3 the vehicle at 50-60% of the price.
With regard to comparison with the LS a comment that I saw, and I may have read it here on another thread, was that the ES is 2/3 the vehicle at 50-60% of the price.
#23
I said that, and its a comment I still agree with. Its a great value, but the LS is of course a better car.
#24
I think every single owner, magazine editor, or journalist who actually know cars would disagree with you. I take it you are into German cars, because nobody objectively would make the same statement. To each his own but I beg to differ
absolutely . It was impressive. There was easily an inch to an inch and a half extra room between my knee and the dash. Pretty impressive. I also love the styling and the tech. The power is the same but seemed pretty adequate when I drove the current gen and the last
absolutely . It was impressive. There was easily an inch to an inch and a half extra room between my knee and the dash. Pretty impressive. I also love the styling and the tech. The power is the same but seemed pretty adequate when I drove the current gen and the last
#25
This was discussed in another thread, but the es350 fitted with the 18" wheels on Bridgestones is noticeably stiffer riding than those that came with the Michelins. I changed mine out for this reason and am a happy camper.
#26
Comparison: 11' ES350 / 13' ES350 / '13 ES300h
The '11 ES had a little more softer and quieter ride than the '13 ES350 loaner. And, I agree with ElliotB, the '11 ES had a looser suspension; the '13 ES has a tighter suspension, requires less steering correction and tracks better. The somewhat drifty/floaty ride was one of my initial dislikes when I first got the '11 ES...of course, I was coming from a '06 Audi (w/ sport suspension) and noticed the difference right off. But like some things, I adjusted to it...the ride quality was better than my Audi.
Here's how I would rank ride quality only with all 3 vehicles having OEM tires:
1) '11 ES350 (edges out the other 2 ever so slightly)
2) '13 ES300h (most definitely the most quiet of the 3)
3) '13 ES350 (has a better suspension)
I can't comment on LS460 vs '13 ES because I've never driven an LS. However, I had an opportunity to purchase a '08 LS460 before I bought the '11 ES350 but passed. I wanted a Lexus with better FE, would take regular gas, and was comfortable on long stretches of highway. This ES 300h UL is most definitely the one.
Riddle me this, how can one have such a different driving experience between a '13 ES350 and '13 ES300h?
#27
#28
Had a new 2013 ES 350 loaner while my LS was in for warranty work. I was able to put 1000 miles on it over the past week.
The ES 350 is much loader and not nearly as refined as I had expected a new $45K 2013 Lexus to be. I figured the ride would be more refined and luxury car oriented. I assumed wrong. I drove some older ES’s and the 2013 is not even close to the same car in terms of quietness or ride quality. The 2013’s ride was no different than any Chevy Impala I rent at an out of town airport. The 2013 ES 350’s dash layout is nice looking, but I am sorry, I have to be able to touch the radio and air conditioning buttons to change them. That mouse thing is frustrating to use. I now know I don’t want my next car to have that type of layout. Yes, I know the new LS has the same layout.
The acceleration was decent and the new exterior on the ES 350 was not too bad. I liked it. But after real world driving for a week, I would not buy a 2013 ES. No way.
The ES 350 is much loader and not nearly as refined as I had expected a new $45K 2013 Lexus to be. I figured the ride would be more refined and luxury car oriented. I assumed wrong. I drove some older ES’s and the 2013 is not even close to the same car in terms of quietness or ride quality. The 2013’s ride was no different than any Chevy Impala I rent at an out of town airport. The 2013 ES 350’s dash layout is nice looking, but I am sorry, I have to be able to touch the radio and air conditioning buttons to change them. That mouse thing is frustrating to use. I now know I don’t want my next car to have that type of layout. Yes, I know the new LS has the same layout.
The acceleration was decent and the new exterior on the ES 350 was not too bad. I liked it. But after real world driving for a week, I would not buy a 2013 ES. No way.
#29
"ES 350 is much loader and not nearly as refined" (I assume you meant to type write 'louder'.) Sorry, this doesn't quite pass the smile test!
Based on your comments, sounds like your next car is going to be a Chevy. I have had more than my fair share of GM cars. But NEVER again! Good luck!
Based on your comments, sounds like your next car is going to be a Chevy. I have had more than my fair share of GM cars. But NEVER again! Good luck!
#30
I had a 13 ES as a loaner last week. I was unimpressed. I had the car for 4 days and could never get comfortable. The seat to pedal to steering wheel distances were off. I felt like I had to hold my let up in order to drive. There was no comfortable position to put the seat so that my leg could relax. The steering wheel did not come out far enough for me, I felt as if I had to stretch quite a bit to reach the wheel, but yet I had to have the seat positioned where it was in order to have a proper foot to pedal contact. Lastly, I was turned off by the mismatched woods. The steering wheel wood was a poor match up with the door and dash wood trim. Different grain and different color. These are quality/comfort issues that should not represent any Lexus product. I have driven many previous body ES's and never experienced these issues. Now of course the new model looks better, but that means little if the overall quality and comfort has been compromised.