Loaner Car: 2013 ES 350
#46
Pole Position
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Never drove a previous gen MKZ but the new one has a very nice ride. A little stiffer than the ES and the steering is slightly heavier. But the interior quality of the ES is slightly better. I'd say about 75% of the interior pieces of the MKZ are exactly the same as the Fusion. All the auto mags complained about that.. But the ES looks nothing like the Camry or Avalon interior.
#47
Lexus Fanatic
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If I were a Hyundai executive I'd be thinking: "All we have to do now to crush Lexus and the other "luxury" car makers is make a car that has an old fashion soft and coffin quiet ride combined with large, soft seats and an interior that's luxurious looking and feeling, but devoid of complicated and expensive electronics. Overnight Hyundai would be swamped with order for hundreds of thousands of these $25,000 - $30,000 grandpa and grandma cars. Plus another couple hundred thousand that younger people would buy who drive alot of highway miles and so need a car that is not fatiguing. Current Lexus models have so much high frequency road and tire noise at highway speeds that it is necessary to wear ear plugs to cut fatigue when driving long distances.
You have to get it through your skull that this is what the consumer wants. You can't fault a car company for building what the consumer wants. I have a brand new Lexus with 18" wheels, there is no high frequency road or tire noise, nor any tire noise of any kind. It rides just as silently as my old 2003 ES on 16's, or the old 98 LS my Dad used to have on 16s. Of course it rides a little firmer, which is fine. Lexus sales are UP not down, so obviously what they are doing is working, whether you want to buy them or not. Since every carmaker is moving this direction, thats the way the industry is trending.
I am 32...I drive a lot of highway miles...and I am not fatigued. My GS rides beautifully on the highway. "Necessary to wear ear plugs"?!?! Crazy.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-03-13 at 12:14 PM.
#48
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So it will be interesting to see if sometime during the next 5 years any particular automaker may decide to buck the trend and introduce a Buick LeSabre or Mercury Marquis type car again. Possibly a company somewhat desperate to gain market share might do it. Like maybe Chrysler or Hyundai / Kia. Alternatively, maybe a chunk of the 46-80 year olds will simply buy a Camry or Fusion type car instead of an ES350 or MKZ as they gradually become aware that ride comfort, quietness, seat comfort and interior furnishings of a ES350 or MKZ are not substantially superior to a Camry or Fusion (hence not worth the 75-100% higher price).
#49
Lexus Fanatic
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I think you should call these manufacturers up and offer your services as a consultant.
And how is an ES or MKZ 75-100% more than an Avalon or Fusion? The difference is more like 10% when you compare them to fully loaded models.
And how is an ES or MKZ 75-100% more than an Avalon or Fusion? The difference is more like 10% when you compare them to fully loaded models.
#50
Lexus Champion
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Funny. Maybe then I'll be able to get that LeSabre or Grand Marquis I've been itchin' for.
#51
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I had a dream about it last night Bob, with whitewall tires, wire wheels AND a vinyl top! It'd be the bees knees!
#52
Lexus Champion
#53
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The best angle is its side profile with the car's very thin front pillars and thick, swoopy but interesting C-pillars in back...
The rear design suffers similarly to the front thanks to a really high decklid with the integrated spoiler, it looks too tall and flat. (See picture 7 in the gallery http://www.lincoln.com/cars/mkz/gallery/photos/)
I think it's the best looking Lincoln sedan yet, but the new company grill now on all models (except the Navigator) is something that I don't think will ever grow on me.
Last edited by amphipri0n; 02-04-13 at 08:25 AM.
#54
Lexus Fanatic
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Have you seen it in person? I was much more impressed in person than in pictures.
#55
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http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/31...13-2012-a.html
"I traded my 2013 Avalon in on a 2012. I will say, there are many things I will miss about the 2013, the tech package stuff for sure. But the size and the ride (I was looking for) goes to the 2012! The 2012 rides A LOT more comfortably, A LOT smooth, it's a bigger car and acts it. It's what Toyota calls a luxury sedan."
#57
Lexus Fanatic
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He better take good care of that 2012.
Exactly, they're trying to make more emotional cars, cars that are less vanilla. You're going to loose some of the customers who want a numb transportation device...but these aren't the customers they want anyways.
That should be expected when you try to broaden your demographic. Might lose some customers but will make up for it in the long run.
#58
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Then in another paragraph Consumer Reports wrote: "The previous ES had a silky smooth ride, but the new car lacks it's isolation. The ride isn't as tide down or cushy as we expect from a luxury sedan, especially with the optional 18 inch wheels."
And with regard to the interior materials Consumer Reports wrote: "The seats and dash are well finished. But some switches and plastic panels look cheap and out of place in an upscale sedan. The front seats are wide and accomodating, but the cushion loses support on long trips."
In summary Consumer Reports said the redesigned ES is "a less satisfying car."
Consumer Reports gave the ES350 an overall road test score of 80 vs 92 for the Hyundai Genesis. CR was also critical of the Cadillac XTS and Lincoln MKS and said: "Neither car has a true luxury-car ride. The MKS's suspension allows impacts to come through harshly [even when driving in Comfort mode]".
#59
Pole Position
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2 auto mags also stated that the 2013 MKZ seats were too hard. I test drove two of them and they were much softer than my 2010 Maxima was and almost as soft as my ES.
Car reviews should be taken as entertainment. I will never use their views/opinions on selecting a car.
Car reviews should be taken as entertainment. I will never use their views/opinions on selecting a car.
#60
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"despite Lexus's claim of injecting more sportiness into the ES, it's no more agile or fun to drive" "The ride isn't as tide down or cushy as we expect from a luxury sedan"
CR seems to contradict themselves with these two statements. Lexus did inject more sportiness into the ES so its ride isn't as cushy. With regard to ride/handling, I prefer the '13 ES hands down over me previous '11 ES.
I don't think I will be trading my ES in for a Genesis any time soon in spite of the CR review!
CR seems to contradict themselves with these two statements. Lexus did inject more sportiness into the ES so its ride isn't as cushy. With regard to ride/handling, I prefer the '13 ES hands down over me previous '11 ES.
I don't think I will be trading my ES in for a Genesis any time soon in spite of the CR review!