unowned

That was my deal, and yes timing and charisma is everything to getting the best deal.

SW17LS

Timing sure, car dealers don't care about charisma.

Arty101

It will also depend upon what they have in stock, whether they have the car and options you want, and other factors.

This is 5 months into the new model year, so in a few months they'll be doing some spring/pre-summer cleaning. Also, I've read that after Christmas, sales are at the lowest for the next few months so I'm sure they're willing to deal now. In the mean time supplies must have caught up with demand, with a larger stock of vehicles available to choose from and deal on.

unowned

You don't think a person's general ability to barter (charisma, charm, VIP, outgoing, lying) whatever the method(s) employed won't help with the final deal?

SW17LS

Ability to negotiate isn't a trait of charisma. Car dealers aren't going to give a better deal to someone who is more likable than someone else.

A charismatic salesperson may be able to get a buyer to pay more, but a charismatic buyer isn't going to get the salesman/GM of a dealership to sell them a car for less. Business is business, these guys are pros.

Arty101

As they say in the business: money talks, BS walks. Yes, the big corporations and auto dealers deal are just about the numbers. They are certainly not like the little guy that will listen to every sob story that comes in and gives you a break. If they need to move a car, they'll give you a break. It's all about timing, supply and demand.

unowned

I agree except if it was only timing, supply and demand only then there would be set prices based on a mathematical formula with zero room for negotiation, they do have a bottom price based on this formula. Instead sales like to play the bargaining game to find a sucker or someone willing to play hardball. The ball is still somewhat in your court to finishing up the deal and reaching the bottom math number.

Arty101

No such thing as a mathematical formula for supply and demand, just as there isn't a formula to predict the value of stock valuation. You can try, but you just can't predict with any certainty what people want, and when they want it, with many outside factors involved. Death and taxes are more certain.

SW17LS

Its absolutely supply and demand, thats business 101. Business is always supply and demand. If demand is high, and supply is low, prices will be high. If demand is low, and supply is high, prices will be low.

The X factor is the breadth of the buyer's knowledge about what is and is not possible in terms of a deal on the vehicle, and their ability to negotiate as good a deal as they can. So, even when the situation is stacked in the buyers favor, most still overpay.

However likeable a person you are or however good a negotiator you are is meaningless if someone else is waiting there to spend MSRP. You aren't going to pull one over on a car dealership.

LexBob2

Yup, it's just a transaction to the dealership and the sales people. Whatever transaction is best for them at the time, is the one they'll do.

unowned

current supply, sales targets, sold cars, and number of people inquiring about the car all can be tracked and made into a formula to maximize profits for the dealership. It's not a full predictive model for the future car sales, but can be very helpful if the dealer is more willing to lower the price to get you to buy when they analyze sales targets vs supply etc. The formula is still a factor for the "timing" which is the single biggest indicator for the lowest price point you can reach when you are in the negotiation phase of your purchase. Why do you think sales guys walk away with your offer they get the GM to check it against their formula sales model.

unowned

Thanks for agreeing it's not only supply and demand, that was the point I was trying to make about trying to reach that bottom price from their supply and demand model.

SW17LS

Right...but being "charismatic" isn't going to get you a better deal. I think you are misusing the word "charisma".

BUT, supply and demand is the overriding principle at work here. If you don't have ratios of supply to demand that are favorable to the buyer, you will not be able to negotiate as good a deal. Hence why you can do better on the 350 than the 300h, and hence why you can do better in CA than elsewhere, because there are tons of dealers in CA.

There's a mathematical way to know what the dealer's bottom line will be, they use it. You as the consumer can only make an educated guess, and it depends on the time of the month, inventory, allocation, how long a car has been on the lot, color, equipment, incentives...

Arty101

Agreed. Supply and demand will always be the determining factor. Supply can be quantifiable, but other outside influences affecting demand is another story. Which comes back to timing, and not necessarily charm or charisma.

a310pilot

come on guys. He is the most charismatic person that went into that dealership. he ended up getting the deal he wanted- he wins (in his eyes) and they win too. Lexus also wins. Every person at lexus plant wins and all the suppliers win.