a310pilot

I think he just asked a small talk question... WOW you gave us a whole class on this subject. :-) good read.

We have lots of those here in Canada - these roads eventually turn into real gravel roads with nothing else on them.

Sonnie

That's pretty much what happens when they have not been paved in 40 years. Some of these roads are a constant maze of patches and potholes.

LexRuger

There's a street that I go down frequently and for at least the past 15 years, it has never been re-paved and all they do is fill in potholes. The pavement is so jagged and eaten up I don't see how the city finds it acceptable for people to drive over it. And don't even get me started on Downtown L.A.

mrBillFL

LoL, I see, that's a new term for this flat lander...

Well, the ES is pretty quiet, and the harder hi mile tires would help any car.

Sonnie

Harder tires would make it rougher would it not? I thought softer tires would make it smoother riding.

Or are you saying softer tires create more noise?

mrBillFL

Actually, I think the sidewall height determines how hard or soft the ride is. With 17" its a pretty tall side wall and that equals a softer ride. (18" rims would be a harder ride, since the overall diameter doesn't change much)

the harder rubber compounds gets you the higher mileage tire life, but sacrifice traction or grip. (I noticed the 1st week I could spin the tires coming out of turns. especially when wet.)

I think the tread pattern is mostly responsible for road noise.

the Primacy MXV4, are an all season tire, which can be louder, but in this case the the pattern shows channels for rain/snow and lower rolling resistance. (and smooth edges)

when I look at the tread pattern these just look quiet:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....h&autoModClar=


vs the jagged pattern of these (winter tires) - especially the edges

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....h&autoModClar=

So think I misspoke, its not the harder tires, but the overall combination of the primacy's that make them quiet.

bottom line, Tires are the easiest thing to change, and have the most impact.


-you normally see the low tire life tires (under 300 utqg) on new sports cars for the 0-60 times, and over 500 for the hybrids/high mpg cars...

(I still remember the acura NSX owners complains about getting 5-7k miles out of a set of tires)
* http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/22/bu...ted=all&src=pm

Sonnie

I think this is why we should try the 225/50/18 instead of the 45/18 tires. The 50/18's are going to have about the same sidewall as the 55/17's ... and about a 1/2" more than the stock 45/18's. Also, if we went with the Goodyear Assurance ComforTred Touring with the H speed rating, it would be softer and quieter. They have been neck in neck with the Michelin Primacy tires for great reviews and testing. Obviously handling would not be as good, but no worries there... I am the guy that you are yelling at when you are in a long line of cars behind the old geezer that is going so slow.

SW17LS

Have you driven the car on those specific roads you are talking about? I ask because road surface irregularity noise suppression is not where Lexus excels IMHO.

Sonnie

Unfortunately no... there is not one of these within 4 hours of us. The one we are actually getting is in Tampa, FL. 8 hours south of us.

I am not sure our options for quiet cars is all that good for this price range. The BMW 5 series does fairly well on these roads, but for the equivalent package options we are looking at $10K more money. Right now we are at $46500 out the door. I just don't know of anything we can get for that price that we are going to like as much as we do the ES350 and that will offer these options. There just may have to be some sacrifice on the noise level on these roads. She has been living with it in the Kia for a while now... and I would hope the Lexus would at least be a little better than the Kia.

SW17LS

I would expect it would be significantly better than a Kia, but in your situation I would absolutely do the 17s over the 18s, and make sure you have the Michelins. Have you driven the ES at all on those roads, even with the 17s?

Have you driven the Buick Lacrosse or the Lincoln MKZ? You also may want to try a Hyundai Genesis.

Sonnie

No... the Lexus dealer in 50 miles north of us and they won't let us bring it down here. We have not driven any of the other cars mentioned. My wife is not a fan of any of those. She had an 06 Hyundai Azera for 5 years and it did pretty well, but she is not crazy about the new Azera interior. If that interior had not looked like an alien, she might have leaned towards it a little more and probably saved several thousand dollars too. She had that strange yucky look on her face with the Lincolns. The LaCrosse may have been a player if it were not a Buick. She has this thing about Buicks. Plus the V6 does not get quite as good gas mileage and she doesn't want another 4 cylinder or a hybrid. I don't blame her for being picky though... she needs to want what she gets and get what she wants, which she usually does.

mrBillFL

17" all the way.

on tirerack.com (and maybe others), you want to look at the tire diameter. and try to be within .25" (or less) of the factory diameter, otherwise you change the suspension geometry. -and the speedo.


its hard to beat American cars for comfy (land yacht) rides.

I'd also shop the Lincon MKZ /MKS -not bad rides until you look at resale.

LexRuger

I would not consider a MKZ. I almost got one but they've had a lot of production issues and recently have had to ship them from the factory in Mexico to a facility in Michigan to inspect them for build issues and then finally ship them to dealers. I've also heard of MKZs on lots having body panel mis-alignment issues.

SW17LS

I'm not talking about an Azera, I'm talking about a Genesis. The Genesis is a TON of car for the money, RWD vs FWD, available V8. For what an ES350 UL costs you can have a RWD V8 Genesis and $5k in your pocket probably after negotiating. Interior is a big improvement from the ES IMHO, and they ride great, very quiet, excellent materials. I would heavily suggest you look at one. Nothing alien looking about the Genesis, its very understated and elegant.

The only reasons to buy an ES over a Genesis are 1. Brand prestige, 2. Resale, 3. Dealer experience. If the Lexus dealer is 50 miles away from you then thats not much of a concern. The Genesis is like getting a GS for the cost of an ES.

The ES is a great car, I drove it for 10 years but I have a sneaking suspicion you're going to be disappointed with noise on those roads.

As for the Lincoln MKZ, has she looked at the NEW MKZ that just came out? Its a beautiful car.

Sonnie

Agree ... http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp is a good site. Lexus can recalibrate the tires with no problems. Obviously there are limitations. Their 17's are 1/2 taller than their 18's.

I understood what you were suggesting, and as I stated, the wife is not interested in those. I was simply telling you about the Azera as an FYI.

The Genesis is not even in the ballpark of the ES350 as far as interior looks. The exterior is okay, but we like the ES better all around. We actually like the exterior of the 13 Azera better than we like the Genesis.





Plus we are looking for better gas mileage, as she drives 50 miles round trip 5 days a week. ... and we drive 40 miles round trip to worship service 3 times a week. Then we do a good bit of traveling from here to there. That V8 Genesis would be horrific on MPG.

4. MPG 5. Reliability (JD Powers) 6. Looks better to us


We somewhat liked the exterior... not crazy about the front. We don't like what Ford has done to all of their interior controls with all those touch controls. It is really blah to us. I can only suspect that would be one fine riding car though. OTOH, if it is anything like the Taurus, it won't be any better on these roads.