Sonnie

My wife and I are in the market for a new vehicle and are seriously considering the ES350. We have looked at over a dozen vehicles and about the only car we believe we would like is the ES350. There are a few others we kind of like, but they are either too expensive (we need to stay in that 40-45K range) or they do not get better than 25-26 MPG Hwy (we would like to be closer to 30 Hwy). The Lexus seems to fit the bill for cost, features and MPG. As best I can tell, it seems to be the best bang for the buck. The Toyota Avalon was a close second, but the catfish mouth looking front end pretty much let it off the hook.

I personally owned a 2011 BMW 528i for a while, but recently sold it to get a truck, but I am now thinking I wish we had kept it. The BMW was the first real luxury car we had and it had everything on it (List was over $60K). I did remove the 17" stock wheels and tires and added 18's. Loved the ride, smooth, quiet. I know a lot of people that have not driven a 5 series will probably think of it as a sporty ride, but it was semi-floaty to us, much different than the 3 series, which was firm and sporty. It is our understanding that the 2011 5 series was softened up over previous year models, something a lot of BMW fans did not seem to like. The ES350 we test drove reminded me of the 528i, although we did not drive it that far. It has some float to it, although not excessive, it seemed to be fairly quiet, and it was pretty comfortable. Enough to convince us we need to give it serious consideration.

The issue right now is that the dealer only had the mid equipped models... nav/premium sound.... no UL's. My wife wants the works, but the one thing that concerns us the most is the 18's that come on the UL and what all I have read at every page I seem to go to... that these tires cause a lot of issues with ride comfort and noise. Granted, I did have 18's on my 528i, but they were taller and had over ¾ inch more sidewall than the ES 18's. They were also the Michelin Primacy tires. I know I could always change them, get new 17 wheels and tires if we did not like the 18's, but I really did not want to have to do that. I also want to stay with this dealer so that we can get free oil changes for as long as we own the car, but they will have to get us the vehicle from another dealer. We have no way to test drive the UL model, as the closest dealer with one in stock is 4-5 hours away, which is too far to drive just for a test drive.

We have about 7-8 miles of bad back country roads on a round trip traveling to work daily... the old graveled type paved roads. Not many vehicles can survive the noise, but the 528i did fair. My Ford Platinum truck does really well, but there are other vehicles we have owned that were terrible. So, I know it is probably a shot in the dark, but I am curious if anyone else has owned a 2011 528i and the 2013 ES350 with 18's and can compare the comfort and noise.

Thanks!

wolfES350

Before I bought my 2013 UL ES, I tested a 2011 535i with 18 wheels. I liked driving it, but I felt the noise of the ground, maybe because it's more sporty. My new ES has 18 wheels, and I just love it. I have no problem with it at all and they look so good in it, and I felt more comfortable than the 535i. I can't picture my car with 17 wheels, it's UL, it has to have 18 wheels

Just my opinion, I'm sure a lot of people disagree with me.

Sonnie

Do you have the Bridgestone tires or Michelin?

bigblack06

iTrader: (20)

Although the comparison is really a huge difference, I can tell you that the Michelin's have been the compromise for most who have those 18" rims. I would suggest telling them that you want Michelin's as part of the deal.

Sonnie

One dealer I spoke with said he has a loaner car with less than 200 miles with the 10 spoke 17's that he would swap out with us, but I think we would rather have the 18 wheels with Michelin tires. I suppose if they swapped them out they would have to actually buy them and put them on themselves... about $800 worth. I am not sure they would be willing to do that if we are getting the car at dealer cost/invoice + $399 doc fee.

I might could sell the Bridgestones for $400-500 and just buy the Michelins myself. I wonder if this car could take a 225/50/18 ... which is .6" taller than the stock 17's ... and almost the same sidewall height. They would be a full inch taller than the upgraded 18's, but if the taller 17's have no issues, then the 225/50 18's should be fine and would probably help some. It would be nice if they made that tire in an H speed rating, but I am only seeing it in the V or Z rating.

LexRuger

One reason BMWs are stiffer riding is because most, if not all the newer ones have run-flat tires. But my ES with 18s was the smoothest of every car I owned.

Sonnie

Exactly, which is why I swapped out my stock 17's for the Michelin 18's. Made a world of difference.

amphipri0n

I considered going this same route 225/50/18 instead of the stock UL 225/45/18. I would guess that the car should accommodate this increased height easily (based on eyeballing the size of the wheel well).

The 18s are pretty low profile especially considering that the GS comes with 225/50 17 standard and only the F sport gets the 19s

As I've commented in other threads, I originally had the Bridgestones and the ride was too hard over bumps (and noisier). The ride is very nice with the Michelins while still feeling firmly planted and VERY stable. The only thing I can possibly complain about now is some tire noise when on freeways that are under construction / not paved well.

One thing that I really love about the ride in the 2013 ES is that over bumps and potholes the car feels incredibly solid as there are no rattles or creaks (except for personal items jangling around in the cup holders). To me this is a pretty impressive feat for a first year redesign of any vehicle class.

Good luck with your search

Sonnie

Unfortunately... the Michelin 225/50/18 "H" rated are on national back order with no ETA. Not that we would have to have them right away, but the newer the Bridgestones are when we take them off, the easier they will be to sell.

wolfES350

My tires are Bridgestone

Sonnie

Thanks... we have decided to go with the UL and if the 18's don't work out, we will try the 225/50 Michelins whenever they become available again.

LexusNN

iTrader: (5)

Congrats, you both will love it. This new ES is one of the best

cindytoo

Sooooo for us newbies buying our first ES300h -- we should ask the dealer to put which wheels and tires on the car? I have to say I am confused....

mrBillFL

AFAIK, the es300h is NOT offered with 18" wheels as an option. it would hurt MPG.
-so no decision is needed.


-back to the OP. I would think the FWD of the ES350 better choice for gravel road than the RWD of the BMW's. but in all honesty, when I think of a gravel road, I thin 4wd. (audi/subuaru/jeep)


Where do they have 'paved' gravel roads? do you have snow on top of that?

Sonnie

What I mean my "paved" gravel road is where the paving company will go over an older road and fill the pot holes with tar and mini rock, then spray tar over the road, then spread out gravel (actually it is slag/limestone) on the road about an inch thick, then they apply a thin coat of asphalt, so the rock ends up extruding through the asphalt. It's not lose, but it makes the road a lot rougher. This is what many of our poorer counties in Alabama have to do to make do. Some of the more traveled back country roads (we call them county roads) will get regular (thicker) asphalt paving that is pretty respectable. But most all of the county roads around where we live are the older roads that have a lot of rough surface where the gravel is surfacing the road and it makes it roaring load in a poorly designed/insulated car.

We have to drive about 7-8 miles of these rough roads when we are driving from Luverne to Troy, where my office is located and where my wife works. When we go towards town, which is the opposite direction, we have about 2 miles before we get to a major highway. About half way we hit the city limits and it was repaved a couple of years ago. When coming home from that direction, there is an immediately change in the level of loudness in any vehicle when leaving the smoothly paved surface onto the rougher surface. How loud it is will no doubt depend on the vehicle.

I have actually tested this in a few vehicles over the years. Here are a few pictures of the difference in the road surfaces...





This will give you a good idea of what I refer to as paved gravel roads.

Here is where I measured the loudness difference:



What I noticed is that most of the vehicles I have tested are fairly close to the same noise level in the car on the rougher roads. Where we notice the most difference is how long we hear that noise once it enters the car... as well as what frequencies are generating the most noise. Some frequencies are louder than others and some cars are better at absorbing those louder frequencies. The perception of loudness is related to both the SPL and duration of a sound. Our BMW always seemed to be quieter than our Kia, but when measuring with an SPL meter they were the same because the loudest frequency was being measured, but it was not the frequency that was perceived to be the loudest. The reason the BMW has the perception that it was quieter is because it does a better job of absorbing the frequencies that are more noticeable to our ears. It is designed well enough to quieten those frequencies quicker than some other cars, particularly the Kia. This also partially explains why some car audio systems, and home theater rooms sound better than others... they are acoustically treated to deal with it. I am not saying that BMW does this intentionally, they may or may not (I do not know), but it is the resulting case. In home theater rooms we do of course intentionally treat those, or at least some people do.

Of course tires play a factor in that too. In addition to the overall road noise in the Kia, we also noticed excessive tire noise from the Nexxen tires that came on the vehicle... even on smooth surfaces. They were absolutely horrible. They were no louder than the road noise on the rough surfaced roads, but on smooth roads you could really notice them. We switched over to the Goodyear Assurance ComforTred Touring tires that are H rated for a much softer and quieter tire. It not only completely eliminated the tire noise, but it also made the ride a bit smoother on the rougher roads (although there is no help for the hardboard leather seats). They did not help much with the actual road noise because the car itself resonates the worst frequencies that are caused by these roads.