Why didn't Avalon and ES just switch badges ?
#62
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#63
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The last I heard , Lexus were using some kind of recycled bamboo , so that's not exactly real wood too. So LexsCTJill's got a point there.
Even if you take both fully loaded , Avalon works out cheaper. As I said earlier , We are paying more to Lexus only for the badge value, and for some it does matter a lot.
To each their own, but it sounds like you're comparing a loaded Avalon against a stripper ES. I drove both highly optioned, and for the $5k price difference, the ES was by far the more luxurious of the two. I couldn't stand the cap-touch controls in the Avalon, as well as the ugly center console.
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I drive 2013 IS-F but got a 2013 ES350 as a loaner car. It looks good and has a nice interior. I love the bamboo interior of the ES300h and my wife really likes the eco friendliness of the hybrid. When my son graduates from college and gets my wife's car, I see an ES300h in her future.
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Avalon vs. Lexus
One thing I noticed when buying my ES is that the quality of the service department and showroom was a whole lot better than the average brand. I've heard of at least one Lexus dealer that has a spa at the service department. Small things like that are an added advantage of buying a premium brand vehicle.
I had a 2009 Avalon. Never had one warranty service issue. Bought a 2013 ES300h. With 1500 miles the BSM went out and required replacement.
While I think the $5K difference was worth getting the Lexus, with the addition of so many technical systems to cars today, the probability of something going wrong is tremendously increased. Was very disappointed that a Lexus would not be fully operational without a system breakdown for many years/miles.
#72
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IMO I don't want to use a service department. I bought the Lexus brand because I wanted a car with a quality standard that exceeds all others and does not require service (other than regular maintenance).
I had a 2009 Avalon. Never had one warranty service issue. Bought a 2013 ES300h. With 1500 miles the BSM went out and required replacement.
While I think the $5K difference was worth getting the Lexus, with the addition of so many technical systems to cars today, the probability of something going wrong is tremendously increased. Was very disappointed that a Lexus would not be fully operational without a system breakdown for many years/miles.
I had a 2009 Avalon. Never had one warranty service issue. Bought a 2013 ES300h. With 1500 miles the BSM went out and required replacement.
While I think the $5K difference was worth getting the Lexus, with the addition of so many technical systems to cars today, the probability of something going wrong is tremendously increased. Was very disappointed that a Lexus would not be fully operational without a system breakdown for many years/miles.
#73
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I think that the BSM malfunction could happen to any car and that's why there are warranties. Had a 2006 Avalon and never went back to the dealer except for the floor mat and accelerator recall. The Lexus brand is consistently rated over and above other brands for reliability.
I think that younger drivers don't have the long-range perspective to realize just how far cars have come in terms of their reliability. I've been driving long enough to remember the time when a well-equipped car had an AM radio and a heater, and using "air conditioning" meant opening all the windows and driving a little faster. Back then, in the 1960s and 1970s, "reliability" meant not having the engine overheat and leave the driver stranded along the side of the road. Today, it is very rare to see a car that actually breaks down. Now, "reliability issues" generally refer to things like the navigation systems not giving good directions or the BlueTooth connection not working properly.
In the past 15 years, I've had 6 Lexus or Toyota vehicles. Other than normal maintenance, brake pads, tires, etc. the only issues requiring service that I've had on all 6 of those vehicles were a $200 repair that was needed to the climate control module on a Toyota Tacoma and $150 spent to repair a leak in the air conditioner line of my Lexus GX. I think that is a pretty amazing dependability record for over 300,000 miles of driving on those Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
#74
Lexus Champion
I think that the BSM malfunction could happen to any car and that's why there are warranties. Had a 2006 Avalon and never went back to the dealer except for the floor mat and accelerator recall. The Lexus brand is consistently rated over and above other brands for reliability.
Art
#75
Lexus Champion
Considering all of the technology and electronics in today's vehicles, I think that it is amazing that there are as few issues as there are. If you look at the reliability ratings from J.D. Power, Consumer Reports, etc., you will see that most reliability issues do have to do with the technology and electronics.
I think that younger drivers don't have the long-range perspective to realize just how far cars have come in terms of their reliability. I've been driving long enough to remember the time when a well-equipped car had an AM radio and a heater, and using "air conditioning" meant opening all the windows and driving a little faster. Back then, in the 1960s and 1970s, "reliability" meant not having the engine overheat and leave the driver stranded along the side of the road. Today, it is very rare to see a car that actually breaks down. Now, "reliability issues" generally refer to things like the navigation systems not giving good directions or the BlueTooth connection not working properly.
In the past 15 years, I've had 6 Lexus or Toyota vehicles. Other than normal maintenance, brake pads, tires, etc. the only issues requiring service that I've had on all 6 of those vehicles were a $200 repair that was needed to the climate control module on a Toyota Tacoma and $150 spent to repair a leak in the air conditioner line of my Lexus GX. I think that is a pretty amazing dependability record for over 300,000 miles of driving on those Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
I think that younger drivers don't have the long-range perspective to realize just how far cars have come in terms of their reliability. I've been driving long enough to remember the time when a well-equipped car had an AM radio and a heater, and using "air conditioning" meant opening all the windows and driving a little faster. Back then, in the 1960s and 1970s, "reliability" meant not having the engine overheat and leave the driver stranded along the side of the road. Today, it is very rare to see a car that actually breaks down. Now, "reliability issues" generally refer to things like the navigation systems not giving good directions or the BlueTooth connection not working properly.
In the past 15 years, I've had 6 Lexus or Toyota vehicles. Other than normal maintenance, brake pads, tires, etc. the only issues requiring service that I've had on all 6 of those vehicles were a $200 repair that was needed to the climate control module on a Toyota Tacoma and $150 spent to repair a leak in the air conditioner line of my Lexus GX. I think that is a pretty amazing dependability record for over 300,000 miles of driving on those Toyota and Lexus vehicles.