Poppa

Hello everyone.... have a question for you.. I traded in a 2007 Toyota Avalon this afternoon for a new 2013 Es 350. Gorgeous car with more stuff on it then I'll ever use.... Before buying I didn't actually drive "this" car as it was sitting on the showroom floor... Instead I drove another 2013 off the lot... I thought the car had a fairly nice ride... not like the ride I had in an old Sedan Deville I had back in the 90's, but still a nice ride..... so I drive my new car off the lot and head home today and the first thing I notice is the ride... not bad by any means, but it doesn't seem to be quite as smooth as the one I drove on the lot... As far as I know the only difference between the two cars was the one on the lot had 17" wheels, mine has 18" wheels. I really like the looks of the 18" wheels on the car, but It seems to me that somewhere in the tons of research that I did that I read somewhere that the 18" wheels gave the car a little bit more of a stiffer ride... anyone here noticed that? Please don't tell me there's something wrong with my car that has less than 50 miles on it..

Poppa

larrytstar

What are the tires - Michelins or Bridgestones? Many people find that Michelins give the smooth, quiet ride they expected - Bridgestones, not so much.

lesz

A few points.

There is definitely a difference in ride quality between using the 18 wheels and using the 17 inch wheels. The trade-off is that, in exchange for a noticeably firmer ride quality, the 18 inch wheels should provide marginally better handling, but it is unlikely that most ES drivers are going to notice any of the handling difference.

Also, you might want to check the tire pressures. Generally, vehicles are delivered from the factory with tires that are over-inflated, and it is not uncommon for dealers to fail to check the pressures and adjust them to proper levels at the time of delivering the vehicle to the customer. The Lexus recommended pressure is 33 psi. When I picked up my ES, the tires were at over 40 psi. Note that some will run their tires at a pound or two higher than the manufacturer's recommendation. Doing so will marginally increase fuel economy at the cost of a marginally firmer ride. Others run their tires at a pound or two below the manufacturer's recommendation. That will give a marginally softer ride in return for marginally lower mpg and, perhaps, marginally more tire wear. I run mine at the manufacturer's recommended pressure. If you choose to do otherwise, I wouldn't suggest varying more than a pound or two from the manufacturer's recommended pressure.

Finally, if the ride quality from the 18 inch wheels bothers you enough, your dealer may be willing to swap out the wheels and tires for 17 inch wheels and the appropriately-sized tires. However, I believe that the 18 inch wheels cost about $800 or $900 more than the 17 wheels, and, if the dealer is willing to do a swap, don't expect to recover much, if any, of the cost difference between the two wheel sizes.

Kansas

Other trade-offs are that the lower profile 18 tires are likely going to wear out sooner, cost more to replace and are more easily damaged.

You can read the disclaimers about tire life on the 2013 ES350 at http://www.lexus.com/cpo/model_library/ES/2013.html including the following precious little phrase: "18-in performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may substantially be less than 15,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions."

Our Prius v Five wagon has the same 17" inch wheel and tire size that is standard on the 2013 ES350. We had to replace one of those tires due to curb damage and that sucker cost over $250.

lesz

I believe that the disclaimer relates to true "high performance" tires. Irrespective of whether tires are mounted on 17 or 18 inch or any other size wheels, there are two factors that cause true high performance tires to wear much faster. One is that those high performance tires use a different rubber compound that enhances performance, but it also wears much faster. The other factor is that high performance tires start out with less tread than conventional tires.

I'm not the fan of the Michelin tires that some others are. While some tout alleged advantages to the Michelins, even the standard Michelin that comes on the ES with 17 inch wheels starts out with only 9/32 of an inch of tread. With my previously owned ES, the Michelins that came with it lasted for only about 40,000 miles. I replaced them with the similar Goodyear Assurance series tires, which start out with 12/32 of an inch of tread, and I got over 65,000 miles out of those tires and still had tread left when I traded in the vehicle. Further, if there was any difference in performance, noise, etc. between the Michelins and the Goodyears, it wasn't enough for me to notice it.

Poppa

Bridgestone Turanza's..... The same tire came on my 2007 avalon when I bought it new.. as soon as they wore out I went to a set of Michelins.... softer sidewall, softer ride.... so do most of you think that this rouger than expected ride on my lexus is due to the 18 in wheels or the tires or a combination of the two... I ask because I am no happy with the ride of this $45K + car... I plan to contact the dealer in the morning, but I'm concerned their response will be something to the effect of " nothing wrong with the car, should have test drivin one with 18 inch rims.. etc.." I've never had to go back to a dealership with this kind of issue in my nearly 45 years of driving so not sure what to ask for, what is reasonable to expect, what the dealership reaction will be... but I do know that I was all pumped up when I got in the car at the dealership yesterday to drive it home... but was "close" to regretting my decision by the time I got home 25 minutes later, and you shouldn't feel like that after just buying a lexus... I sure appreciate you guys giving me some pointers on what to ask for (see above ) and how to handle it. Dont get me wrong.. beautiful car and I love everything else... just the rough ride has me bummed.... And what if I change rims and tires... and it still rides rough... oh god, what have I done.. maybe I should have kept my old avalon...( just kidding )

Poppa

SW17LS

Did you check the tire pressures? Air them down to 2PSI below what's on the door frame.

lesz

Per what I said in my previous post, I'm confident that the major cause, by far, of the difference you see in ride quality between the car you test drove and the one you bought is the 18 inch wheels on the car you bought. Again, while some will tout what they perceive to be a major ride quality difference with the Michelin tires, if there is a difference, it is small compared to the difference caused by the larger wheel size.

Again, if it bothers you enough, I think that it is quite likely that you can work something out with the dealer to swap your wheels and tires for 17 inch wheels and tires to fit them. But don't expect to do so without significant cost. It is not uncommon for dealers to switch out wheels and tires, but the dealer will then sell those take-offs at a significant discount, and it is unreasonable, I think, to expect them to have to sell the take-offs at a loss. A few years ago, I bought a set of Michelin take-offs that a Toyota dealer had, and, even with only a handful of miles on them, they sold them to me for just over half of what the price would have been for new and never mounted Michelins.

Poppa

lesz... thanks for the reply... I agree with you, I'm almost certain the ride difference is because my car has 18" wheels.... Of course how stupid would I look if I went to the dealership, worked out a swap for 17" and then still had the same issue, but I think the odds of that happening are remote. Not sure what to expect as for as $ goes with a swap... the 18" rims were a $880 dollar dealer add on... surely it won't cost me anything to swap out for the 17's.... but I don't expect them to write me a check for 880 either... again, the ultimate goal here is to get back to a smoother ride... am I the only one that thinks the 18" rims provide a significantly rougher ride? Hope I'm not getting *****y in my old age...

SW17LS

Doesn't work that way Poppa. It's an $800 option from the factory, but the wheels are like $400 a piece plus the tires. Then they would have to sell your wheels...

lesz

Have you checked to make sure that they didn't deliver the car to you with the tires over-inflated? If the tires are at 40 psi, as they were when mine was delivered, that would make more difference in ride quality than would the difference between the 17 inch and 18 inch wheels.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised, if you drove the car for a couple of weeks, to hear you say that you stopped noticing the harsher ride with the 18 inch wheels. I know that, for me, I prefer the ride quality with the 17 inch wheels, but I'm not sure that I prefer it so much more that I'd be willing to give up the $900 wheel option that I had already paid for so that I could end up with 17 inch wheels that I could have gotten without having to pay that $900. I can't tell you how much of a hit the dealer would want to swap the wheels, but, while you might or might not have to write a check to them for more money, I doubt that there is much chance of your getting any money back. After they buy the new tires for the 17 inch wheels and sell your 18 inch tires, that alone is going to be a net loss for the dealer of $300-400. And there will likely be an even bigger loss for the dealer after they get you new 17 inch wheels and sell your 18 inch wheels to someone else.

LexBob2

Poppa, I don't know if you read any reviews of the 2013+ ES, but most of them mentioned that the new generation didn't ride the same as the previous (2007-2012) which was the same timeframe as your Avalon. Maybe it's just an adjustment you'll have to get used to and after a short time it won't be an issue any more.

In the meantime, as mentioned, check the tire pressures. It's not unusual at all for the cars to be delivered with higher than normal pressure.

pmarder

I feel the same about my ES with 17 inch wheels and the Michelins. I've lowered the psi and still find the ride too harsh compared to my previous 05 ES. I've had my car for a month and still can't get used to it (though I love everything else about the car).

Poppa

Hey guys, just wanted to thank you all for the replies... In all honesty I have to say that while driving the car today, I still noticed the "rougher" ride, but it didn't seem to be as bad as it felt yesterday when I bought the car... as someone else mentioned, maybe it is just a matter of getting adjusted to the feel of a new car.... also my Son was in town today and he went with me for a ride and his response was... not as smooth as your avalon, but if it were me pop, I wouldn't take it back... my wife said the same thing... so I think I'll drive it for a few days / week or so and see how I feel about it... hopefully I'll make the adjustment.. speaking of adjustments, checked the psi in the tires as recommended by several of you... all 4 were at 34 psi... thanks again... I really appreciate it....

Poppa

Poppa

Lexbob...thanks for the reply... what you said makes sense... when I test drove the new avalons a couple of weeks back, the first thing I noticed was the ride quality wasn't the same... apparently there was a change in the suspension or something with the 2013 avalons and since the avalon and Lexus ES 350 share the same platform, it would make sense that the Lexus ride isn't as "cushy" as before.... Thanks again for getting back to me on this... I do appreciate it.

Poppa