Warming up a cold engine?
02-06-16, 10:36 AM
#16
How long does it take for the main catalytic converter to get warm enough to reduce emissions? I guess that should be the minimum idle period, after that you should drive away gently to warm up the rest of the drivetrain.
On the hybrid, I've noticed that the engine will fire up on really cold days even with a lot of battery charge, but it runs for a short while only. It's like they programmed the ECU to get the cats to operating temperature while stationary, instead of having a cold engine start up when the car's moving.
On the hybrid, I've noticed that the engine will fire up on really cold days even with a lot of battery charge, but it runs for a short while only. It's like they programmed the ECU to get the cats to operating temperature while stationary, instead of having a cold engine start up when the car's moving.
02-07-16, 07:15 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by isfdude
I have tested a few engines with this, If the weather is below 30 degrees and you just start and go you will cause damage to your transmission and the fluid has to reach a certain temp to have The optimum protection that it offers. Also notice that your engine is a little louder on really cold days... This is because oil hasn't fully coated certain parts yet until it thins out. it won't be good to put it under any load other than idling. When parts warm up they expand so if this is don't too fast I don't see this being good for your engine gaskets. Just like your body... You can't just start doing things without warming up unless you will end up doing permanent damage eventually.
The components of an engine are not like the components of your body. You "warm up" your body before exercise to stretch out and limber up your muscles and tendons so they can stretch to their maximum and perform without tearing and cramping.
Your body is a living being, an engine is just a machine composed of metal and rubber components lubricated by oil and cooled by fluid. Metal doesn't need to "limber up" and all of the components are tested and rates to tolerate certain temperatures, those temperatures are way colder than what we're talking about.
Toyota also uses now lower viscosity 0W20 oil which doesn't take as long to get to all the points of lubrication even when cold, that's specifically why they started using it.
I've had Lexus vehicles upwards of 200,000 miles and have never idled to warm up, and have never experienced an engine or engine component failure, or a transmission of transmission component failure. Just use common sense. Let it idle for 20 seconds or so, and don't hammer it for a few miles.
02-07-16, 11:48 AM
#18
SW15LS is perfectly right!
02-07-16, 12:06 PM
#19
Intermediate
Or if the car is inside the garage and you don't have a block heater installed, just turn on the garage light for an hour before you leave.:-)
Next winter, I will get the parabolic heater from Costco for C$80 and maybe turn it on for 5-10 minutes while I make the coffee for the road. It will warm up both the interior and the exterior.
My 2011 is the first of the four cars I've owned that doesn't have a block heater. My garage now is, however, about 10-14 degree Celsius warmer when it's at least -15 degrees Celsius outside.
Next winter, I will get the parabolic heater from Costco for C$80 and maybe turn it on for 5-10 minutes while I make the coffee for the road. It will warm up both the interior and the exterior.
My 2011 is the first of the four cars I've owned that doesn't have a block heater. My garage now is, however, about 10-14 degree Celsius warmer when it's at least -15 degrees Celsius outside.
02-08-16, 01:03 AM
#20
If this were the case, Lexus would have recommended a procedure for warming the engine up in the owner's manual.
The components of an engine are not like the components of your body. You "warm up" your body before exercise to stretch out and limber up your muscles and tendons so they can stretch to their maximum and perform without tearing and cramping.
Your body is a living being, an engine is just a machine composed of metal and rubber components lubricated by oil and cooled by fluid. Metal doesn't need to "limber up" and all of the components are tested and rates to tolerate certain temperatures, those temperatures are way colder than what we're talking about.
Toyota also uses now lower viscosity 0W20 oil which doesn't take as long to get to all the points of lubrication even when cold, that's specifically why they started using it.
I've had Lexus vehicles upwards of 200,000 miles and have never idled to warm up, and have never experienced an engine or engine component failure, or a transmission of transmission component failure. Just use common sense. Let it idle for 20 seconds or so, and don't hammer it for a few miles.
The components of an engine are not like the components of your body. You "warm up" your body before exercise to stretch out and limber up your muscles and tendons so they can stretch to their maximum and perform without tearing and cramping.
Your body is a living being, an engine is just a machine composed of metal and rubber components lubricated by oil and cooled by fluid. Metal doesn't need to "limber up" and all of the components are tested and rates to tolerate certain temperatures, those temperatures are way colder than what we're talking about.
Toyota also uses now lower viscosity 0W20 oil which doesn't take as long to get to all the points of lubrication even when cold, that's specifically why they started using it.
I've had Lexus vehicles upwards of 200,000 miles and have never idled to warm up, and have never experienced an engine or engine component failure, or a transmission of transmission component failure. Just use common sense. Let it idle for 20 seconds or so, and don't hammer it for a few miles.
02-08-16, 01:41 AM
#22
I usually wait until the engine kicks down from fast idle to about 1000 rpm. This takes about 20-30 sec. from a cold start.
02-08-16, 05:13 AM
#23
02-08-16, 06:26 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Whether you managed a dealership or not, we belong to the biggest Lexus forum in the world. Where are the transmission failures just past 100k? Engine failures? Where are those? Where is there any evidence that Toyota as a company participates in the sort of planned obselencense you're talking about here? Toyota is very proud of their long term reliability, its one of their main selling propositions, the idea that they would omit instructions that would cause owners to have dramatically shorter engine and transmission life is absurd IMHO.
If you were involved in dealership management you would know that people don't on the whole wait until their car wears out to buy a new one, and somebody who has premature engine or transmission failure is not going to come back and buy a car of the same brand. Toyota is not so short sighted. Domestic makes in the 80s were...and look at the result of that.
If you were involved in dealership management you would know that people don't on the whole wait until their car wears out to buy a new one, and somebody who has premature engine or transmission failure is not going to come back and buy a car of the same brand. Toyota is not so short sighted. Domestic makes in the 80s were...and look at the result of that.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-08-16 at 06:29 AM.
02-08-16, 08:08 AM
#25
Lead Lap
I've seen TV commercials for motor oil stating that the vast majority of engine wear occurs between the time you start the vehicle and the time when optimal operating temperature is reached. If you start the vehicle and start driving a few seconds later (at relatively low RPMs), yes, you are driving before those optimal temperatures are reached, but, if you let the vehicle idle to warm it up for, say, 10 minutes before driving, it will take longer for the engine and other components to reach optimal temperatures. So, it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
As I stated in an earlier post, modern engine tolerances and modern lubricants are so much better than they used to be, and engine wear that occurs before optimal operating temperatures are reached is much less than it once was, and it has been decades since I've seen knowledgeable mechanics or vehicle manufacturers recommend letting a vehicle idle to warm it up before starting to drive when temperatures are cold.
Like others, I haven't warmed up vehicles before driving for decades, and I've never had any issues with the engines or other components on any of the vehicles that I've owned. Also, like others, I think that it is ridiculous to think that Toyota and other manufacturers would recommend doing something that causes premature engine wear so that they could make more money on repairs. High reliability ratings mean more to the bottom line of an automobile manufacturer than any money that they could possibly make from repairing or replacing engines.
As I stated in an earlier post, modern engine tolerances and modern lubricants are so much better than they used to be, and engine wear that occurs before optimal operating temperatures are reached is much less than it once was, and it has been decades since I've seen knowledgeable mechanics or vehicle manufacturers recommend letting a vehicle idle to warm it up before starting to drive when temperatures are cold.
Like others, I haven't warmed up vehicles before driving for decades, and I've never had any issues with the engines or other components on any of the vehicles that I've owned. Also, like others, I think that it is ridiculous to think that Toyota and other manufacturers would recommend doing something that causes premature engine wear so that they could make more money on repairs. High reliability ratings mean more to the bottom line of an automobile manufacturer than any money that they could possibly make from repairing or replacing engines.
02-08-16, 02:01 PM
#27
This. Lexus has a rediculous reliability rating. I drove my 00 ES for 270k miles and only had to replace one wheel bearing. I sold it because I was tired of it. For a company that doesn't want their cars to last more than 100k, it sure looks like the vast majority of them can or do.
02-08-16, 02:18 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
And thats totally fine, do what you like but don't tell people that if they don't let their cars warm up before driving them they will have engine and transmission failures "sooner or later" or that Lexus doesn't design its cars or want their customers to get more than 100k of life out of them...because those statements aren't true.
02-11-16, 01:32 PM
#29
Wear of what parts, specifically, and of what consequence? Loss of cylinder compression over time due to mechanical piston ring/cylinder wall wear or valve face or seat wear? No, that will not happen, because whatever extra mechanical wear might occur will not be enough to cause a drop in cylinder compression.
02-11-16, 02:06 PM
#30
Lead Lap
I think that this information just about meets everyone's criteria and that it is valid. I've been doing this exact procedure for years. Even with the '66 Corvette where you have to set the choke before starting and "goose" it to bring down the idle...